Episode 29: DIVING COLD

title: Episode 29: DIVING COLD
author: DIVE TALK
contenttype: podcast
publication: DIVE TALK
published: 2021-02-19T12:00:00-05:00
sourceurl: https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/divetalk/Episode29Full.mp3?dest-id=1756346

word_count: 11452

Welcome to dive talk episode number 29. I'm kind of bummed out at this point to be honest like we haven't been Diving for I don't know how many days at this point. I'm feeling desperate. You really happened You were like texting me when are we going diving? When are we going diving? It's ridiculous, but you the last time we went diving we just dove it was cold Which is why we're talking about cold water diving today Exactly. Yeah, it was it was pretty cool. I think we try to brave the The temperature with wet suits. I know that yours and we're gonna talk about Potentially why your dry suit wasn't available Because I want to get into that because I think you know We're gonna get into the topic of dry suits and not all of them are for the same thing They have their own like missions. Let's just say yeah, so we're gonna get into that But you know it was interesting on this last trip because the water was pretty cold I think it was what 63 was it. I mean yeah, there was times where it was 63 degrees I mean I was shaking on the deco stop at a 5 mil yeah plus a 5 mil hood Invest and my heater on yeah, that's what wet does in below 65 degree water. Yeah very quickly. I had I had an 8 mil on and you know on that second dive because you guys couldn't make it It was going back in but I didn't want to leave any lionfish alive on that second I felt so peaceful are we winning to this wreck that is not Dived very often like we found it like that day the coordinates or whatever we went to it Guys from shark was did a good job finding it and I went down there I was there by myself basically, but that's because it was so cold I don't know how you did it dude. I gave you a lot of credit You were determined to go down and get those lionfish only you could handle that There was no chance me or the other guy with me Dave could handle it We would I would have been and the thing about Why we couldn't handle it. It's not only that we were cold, but we were also cognizant of sort of the risks associated with diving and we're diving in deco diving Cold yeah, that is a bad idea and we'll probably be touching on that as well during this This show for sure, but yeah on the last episode we talked about diving deep right because we were just going through something Again on Facebook people speculating whether you can dive deep on air or not or whatever and this episode is Directly affected by our experience actually the next day after we recorded that episode Which was that super cold day of diving yeah, by the way it was we got to talk about it We should people are probably like well, where did you dive it was the Gulf of Mexico out of the Pensacola area About 20 miles out not far from the Eurasian e but in the The Gulf of Mexico can be cold, but certainly in the winter the bottom temps are cold That's right to us now. I'm going Saturday Ice diving in Utah underneath the ice the water temp will be 30s. Yeah, okay, so everybody has a and this is important It's gonna set up the show everybody has a different definition of cold water diving. Yeah, it's really important I just want to start the show with this. It's very important for you to know what's cold for you or how long in a dive Is it going to take you to become cold and are you doing cold non-deco diving or cold Deco diving so I hope that sets up the topic yeah because we want to get into Let's talk about diving in cold water and why you may want to do that We had a good reason for wanting to do that right right because we wanted to Increase our dive options and the dive option specifically was to be able to slaughter lionfish for sure And so we had a purpose we were gonna It's not too far away so time of travel that was about a five hours from us rather than going all the way down to South Florida Which is a 10 or 11 hour drive right we said okay? We'll dive cold however my dry suit I Would have definitely used it but it was in repair I had some micro holes in the feet and some of the seams turned also turn out had a little bit of leak in it So I wanted to get that repaired and I did something that I usually don't do I Compromised and said you know what it's not gonna be that bad. I'll be able to handle it And I should have known better because I can't handle cold water diving. I knew that yeah You knew it when we went when we went to vortex springs because what one one day the wind was you know ridiculous and like no No boat went out so we were like well We're like an hour from vortex. Let's just go diving We wanted to try out the new the PVs and stuff. Yes, and vortex spring is 68 degrees you're around right Same temperature you're around and you were freezing there. Yeah, I'm like wow like It's gonna be colder and I'm like it'll be fine. Yeah Yeah, yeah, I'll be lying fish hunting. It will be excited. We'll be moving around like You're definitely I was just flat out wrong It happens I was wrong and I was shaking on the Diko stop now. That's dangerous definitely you can we're gonna talk about it You can definitely affect your Diko But diving in cold water just to continue that sort of an outline you and I put together. Yes, it does increase your Dive side options for sure like and I know you know We've talked about it before with there's people that say why would I dive in cold water like warm water is so nice Well, there are things you can't find in warm water like if you want to do the caves in Florida Gotta go to 72 degree water 72 degree People would say that's warm. Yeah, that's what I'm saying It's a trick this cold water definition is tricky How about you want to see new animals new organisms? Yeah, that art Necessarily available like some people are Totally in love with diving in the kelp forest a California and seeing the sea lions. Yeah, right there like underwater dogs and they blow bubbles at you What's that like? Yeah, really something degrees. Yeah, you better layer up pretty cold. So that's cold. Yeah, absolutely about In general visibility People will tell you that cold water diving in general Has better visibility and I have found that to be the case Yep, absolutely, but what do you need to be comfortable with Gus if you're gonna do cold water diving? What is a very important topic that we have to discuss in this show for sure So today we're gonna talk about dry suits and being comfortable definitely driving diving with a dry suit Not only that but being knowledgeable about it This is one of those things that when I started diving as I mentioned I wanted to go to Iceland and You know, I was sort of like okay, you know like I can figure out how hard can it be or whatever and Somebody was like you can drown on a dry suit Like if you don't know how to use it it can be a big deal, right? It's a problem and how about hypothermia Yeah, you want to talk about hypothermia flot of dry suit when you're ice diving You're gonna go because I just did the class You're gonna go hypothermic in a couple of minutes and remember to go hypothermic It's only a one or two degree overall difference in your entire body temperature It's very Surrey margin isn't that amazing? It's crazy and there's other things you got to consider But sides dry suit because I want to stay on our out like what are some of the other things that we got to Consider because it really affects a lot of our gear for sure and it's interesting because when I went to Iceland I took my own gear with me my own BCD my own regulator I'm like I want to test it to see if it really works I knew the water was gonna be like 33 degrees or whatever Yeah, and I remember when I got in the water the guy was like hey once you put the regulator in the water Do not take it out of the water. Yeah, I'll take it out of the water because the wind will freeze it It's the change From high pressure to low pressure This is getting into Charles Law is going to create even lower temperatures So on top of that your breathing that regulator on the surface is creating a little bit of humidity inside of it Yep with that additional temperature change You have frozen regulator icing so that's one of the things we learn about really cold water diving is we don't Test the regulator on the surface you need to keep it underwater That's excellent excellent point. Yep, so there's a lot of stuff that that we need to learn But you mentioned that you know It was dangerous to be on deco and being cold. Why is that like what are some of the effects of cold water in the body That is a really great question because there's a lot of physiological effects Okay, so blood shunting can occur in cold water Increased risk of nitrogen becoming trapped The fact of the matter is your body is just not moving around that nitrogen It's not able to release that nitrogen nearly as fast so does it happen? Does it happen like and maybe this is more of a question for dog But like I wonder if this if the stuff like you know on your skin when you're in cold water your skin kinds of like You know gets compressed it gets it retracts and I wonder if your organs inside as well if they feel the cold if they also do that Comprison which then makes it harder for nitrogen to escape Yeah, it increases it doesn't get entrapped yes, so basically what it what it means by this shunting okay What does shunting blood away mean it the heat loss? Your body reacts to the heat loss by shunting blood away from the arms and legs correct, okay Which increases the opportunity for nitrogen absorbed in the extremities to become trapped it's Pushing it back. It's it's not enabling it to get out to those outer limbs. I'm trying to make this a Visual right sort of thing. It's just it's shunting the blood away from that so the nitrogen is all like Compressed bunched up not able to get out of one particular spot That is really dangerous You know what else is really interesting nobody would Sometimes when you are getting prepared For cold water diving and you're getting in that dry suit because you know you're gonna be in the cold water diving You could actually easily get hyperthermia The opposite is also a risk you start burning up I mean you know that when me and you are getting dressed in August in the high springs area It's Brutal I get desperate. It's all we hear when we jump in is oh We are soaking wet inside your dry suit from sweat. That's right, but you can't not be in the dry suit because we're about to do a three-hour Caved diving 72 degree water so another physiological effect so before we start talking about the benefits of dry suit Let's just do a quick recap on the difference between a wet suit and a dry suit like if you're a brand new diver, right? So just the 30 second abbreviated I Guess explanation is on a wet suit It will trap a layer of water between your skin and the suit and that layer of water will be heated up by your body temperature and that Layer of warm water at that point protects you from the outside Water that is colder the water that is outside of the wet suit. That is perfect on a dry suit It's you don't have that layer of water your dry inside your suit and the stuff that You're wearing between the dry suit and your skin is what protects you from the cold If it's a Trilam dry suit correct which isn't really adding any heat protection is just keeping you dry correct Then it's all about your thermo inside Yeah, there are neoprene dry suits. I wonder what's the what's the split like between neoprene and trilam? Trilam is by far at least from what I see the most common one common. It's lightweight. It's easier to repair I feel like Ray Pear easier to get in yeah, I don't know about you when I dove in Iceland I rented a dry suit and they gave us Seven millimeter neoprene dry suits. I Think I had to wear and I weigh 138 pounds. I think I had to wear like I remember like 35 or 38 pounds I don't know water for me. I was like it was heavy That's really hard to walk you kind of had to walk from the parking lot into the the dive area So that's right. I was warm, but but I'm glad you mentioned that I think I had a trilam But the the point is is Especially with a trilam dry suits the dry suits don't make you warm like that is I feel a big misconception With people that are not certified on dry suits or they've never been on a dry suit Which by the way? I think the vast majority of people in the world learn how to dive on a dry suit because they're in cold Water's lakes whatever yeah But for the people that are not used to it There's a misconception about the fact that dry suits will make you warm No, what makes you warm is the stuff you wear inside of the dry suit great point and you can wear heater inside the dry suit Correct and they have some heaters that are have magnetic control so you can put a little Metal switch if you well against that magnetic control to change the settings or turn it or turn it off and on but the other thing I think that you mentioned is They're different than a wet suit in that the late there's a layer of air inside that dry suit correct What happens to that layer of air as you go down underwater in a dry suit it compresses So you're being squeezed imagine for those of you haven't dove in a dry suit that you put on a garbage bag You just wrapped yourself up in a garbage bag except for your mouth and nose so you can breathe right imagine as you go down that garbage bag It's getting tighter and tighter and tighter around you It could suffocate you so it's extremely important that the inflator valve Is not leaking and is working because you're gonna have to add air inside that dry suit as you're going down Now that puts a bubble of air inside the dry suit So it takes a minute because now your buoyancy is affected and where is that bubble of air is it all the way Up by your neck just bubbling right out or is it moving all the way down to your feet where you're gonna get yanked up to the surface Upside down by your feet. That's right. You're changing your buoyancy and you're having to do a balancing act and there's a whole discussion you I leave my My valve open to let air out of it or do I close it or do I do a mixture of both or do I control my buoyancy from My BCD mostly or my dry suit mostly you know that my answer It's a it's a maybe a little different than yours and that that's totally okay. Yeah, is that it depends I don't do it the same way. I really started thinking about it after you mentioned it Right and I noticed that for me it becomes like right in a bicycle and it's natural and I'm not even thinking about it Sometimes I'm controlling my buoyancy more from the dry suit than I am from the BCD Like for example if I know that I'm gonna be moving up and down a lot through a cave system Like we're not at one spot. I know certain areas of the cave here. I go I'm moving up. I got to go back down I'm gonna leave the valve open and I'm gonna that's gonna that's basically gonna be moving that air all over the place inside the dry suit right and at that point I actually find myself to be doing a balance of controlling my BC my buoyancy from the BCD and the dry suit I'm using both that's nice But if I get to a depth and I'm staying at that depth what I do is I get The dry suit with enough air in it to where I'm comfortable and it's a little bit in my feet I happen to like a little bit of a squeeze and I'm sort of being Lifted up a little bit by my feet and then I close the valve So I'm no longer letting air out of it because I'm not really moving up and down very much anymore And I don't really have to do anything with my BCD at that point Yeah, I can sort of add if I'm moving a few feet that I'm really controlling the buoyancy almost entirely from my dry suit Yeah, what I That's what you're like doing. Yeah, I think it's all about like you said It's like a bicycle. I once you get used to it. You're not thinking about it For me because of the way I was taught was just leave it open It's a mushroom valve like water is not getting in. Yes, and when you need to release air You just have to live your arm You don't have to remember like do I have to open do I have to close it like what if you're holding a line because there's a lot of current The last thing you want is let go to try to open your valve and so just always leave it open That's what my instructor told me but it's also inconvenient in some cases because you could be going in a straight line Turn around to look at something and then some air went out and now you lost a perfect volume that you so there is pros and cons to both But it is true that I think the biggest challenge to dry suit Diving is to learning how to manipulate that bubble That is that that is the thing that takes the most time it does and Brian who was on the show before he told us a very funny story Which is he said that his wife was trying a new dry suit, right? So it wasn't hers. He wasn't measure for her. It was like a tall You know dry suit, but she's like you know and dry suits don't have to be tight like wetsuits So she put it on she got on a pool and she was kind of new at diving And then she got inverted which means all the air goes to your feet now on the class on the dry suit class If you've never taken it we teach you how to do this we teach you how to get recover from this The problem is that because the suit was like a tall suit Her feet slit out of the boots and both legs were sticking out inflated like like SMBs like surfer market boys They were just floating yeah in the surface so she couldn't like Spin and rotate and she was like trying to get somebody to help she was completely stuck and that is a good point When you put air in those boots There's a risk that they can come off. That's right. That's the balance you just alluded to enough Air in the feet to where it feels good to you But if you put too much man that could there's so much air pushing out It's pushing your boots off your feet. That's right. You have to be careful And with my dry suit I have like something to tie them around my ankle. So once I put my feet inside the boot They have like an ankle like a velcro thing So it doesn't it doesn't pop out even if it inflates my mine as well. Yeah Right, right most dry suits will have that But you do have to be careful and the point is you have to train and get comfortable definitely with your dry suit You don't want to have your boots off and no fins on and all the air trapped in your feet because of the example that you just gave You also have to factor in I think you got to take into consideration cost Yes, I have found there's a huge range of cost in dry suits I'm now getting a new one made for example. Yeah, I custom Made dry suit They took 28 measurements on me 28 nice when I sent them in they were like redo the following six because your math doesn't work if we take all the vertical points That's not adding up to your total height or it's not adding up from the top of your head to the bottom of your crotch They're that detail wow But now that we got all the measurements perfect that thing is going to be exactly made for me They even ask what type typically of undergarments do you wear so they give you room for that and so forth That's awesome and it's made for it's you know enhanced and made for cave diving because that's And that is what I was gonna mention the reason why you dove wet in Pensacola was because your dry suit was getting fixed Because you've been cave diving with it But that dry suit is perfect for like ocean diving and whatnot is great to provide you know, um, I guess How do you call it insulation from cold water if you're out in the ocean But when you're dragging it against rock and going through restrictions and stuff like that It's gonna start getting damaged. It's not made for that I was lucky there when I bought my dry suit a I made it custom made and oh cool Yeah, and this one it was I don't know how many measurements but it's with an iPad like beautiful dry suit Yeah, they they put an iPad and they make you like turn this way turned out way and it's mapping everything so it's the same thing um and And I bought it with Kevlar rather than regular trilam Yeah, because the guy that was kind of helping me pick my dry suit and they they sold a bunch of this in France I like bulletproof exactly It's tougher than trilam for sure But he was like you know like you should get it because I use this for cave diving and he never rips and I'm like I have no interest in cave diving like I didn't even know about regulators back then when I bought this suit Uh or about uh re-breaters. That's what I meant not regulators um But he was like it doesn't matter like you're on the ocean you get washed up against some rocks whatever like there's current You hit a coral lasting you need is you know, you're in the Galapagos. Yeah, you get a gash on your suit now if flots You're gonna be freezing so just get the Kevlar cave diving dry suit. You'll thank me even if you never cave dive that is true Luckily I Yeah, so that is you're talking we know that's what we're talking about factors for selection You got to look at the features you got to look at I think ease of repair is it gonna be the kind of dry suit where you can change your own seals Like I just popped off my seals and I put dry gloves on them because you can't dive in ice water with Wet hands, yeah, right easy to do. I could do that myself pop off the silicon seals Clip in the dry gloves. It's like a clip-in system But some don't have that and there's different reasons why you may or may not want that right price You got a factor in the price so they're not all made the same They all have different reasons and you ought to get yourself with somebody that knows a lot about them and spend the time to research it So you get one that's gonna last you and fit the need that you have like exactly what you said it previously Yeah, and by the way, there are people that love dry suit diving even when it's warm like there's nothing wrong With you wearing a dry suit when it's warm one of those people for example the leader of the dirty dozen Aaron he He dives with a dry suit in Chuck Lagoon the Marshall Islands which are tropical destinations But for him and I ask him like Aaron why are you every picture I see of you? I know is warm where you're diving But you have a dry suit why and he's like well because the wrecks that we hid have oil and have gasoline still like you know coming out of them a dry suit protects me from that There's no water between my skin and the suit my total sense for him so I haven't it all the time that's he dives a dry Yeah, it just makes a lot of sense So we've got all these different types of dry suit different types of materials so You know, let's let's rattle off for you We we talked about a neoprene dry suit think about that for Really cold water. I what is really cold water to you? I don't know to me. It's anything below 70, but that's right some people are gonna say that's crazy I got to be in the 50s or 40s or 30s right you've got Compressed neoprene dry suits nylon dry suits Vulcanized rubber dry suits that things like made for warfare or something yeah Try laminated of the lighter weight ones that Gus and I are talking about so most of your insulation is gonna be internal from the layer in your Do or a dual layer dry suit and they listen We don't have enough time to go through all the specifics of each one of those But it's to make our listeners aware that wow. There's a lot to consider When choosing a dry suit and each one has a different purpose and there's another one by the way that I I don't know about I've never really looked into them. They're called semi-dry Yeah, I don't know how those work. I understand wet suits and I understand dry suits with semi-dry suits So I've done semi-drys a few times a semi-dry Is let me let me explain it this way if a Wet suit is bringing in a warm layer of water that your body then heats up It's continuing to bring in water. It's not just bringing in one layer and then that's it Yeah, a semi a semi-dry You're not dry, but it's not letting a lot of water move in and out. It's Dryer than a wet suit, but you're not dry. So think of it as a very thick very Very dry Wet suit, okay, but not but not a dry suit But you don't have to deal with inflation or anything like that, so it's yeah So we use them at that we use those At the Georgia Aquarium to keep people warm in the cold water environments But then they don't have to deal with all those other things that we talked about you don't have to deal with bringing a bubble inside of you and balancing the bubble There's no risk of having the bubble go to your feet. It's still a wet suit. Although you really would not feel Wet it keeps you pretty warm. That's that's good. That's the best possible way I can describe it You need a lot more weight than a regular wet suit in a semi dry, right? So another option that I remember having to To pick when I ordered my dry suit was a pee valve Right, so that's another one that was like do you want one or not and I thought I I would because obviously when I'm diving I pee like 10 times yeah within the first hour So I'm like I think I think I need it and Again, once again the guy that kind of pointed me into the into the whole Material that I chose the Kevlar. He was like you don't want a pee valve like those things leak Like I'll they fail a lot. That's what I know a guy who has a pee valve and I can tell you At least 50% of the time I see him come out with a wet dry suit flooded flooded Yeah, so he was he was like you know, I just hold it or wear a diaper or something just don't get it You know, it's better the the least amount of Potential failure points the better when it comes to dry suit. I agree But now some of them do have a sort of an option. That's a compromise. They have a zipper Right where that area is so you instead of having to get Totally out of your dry suit, which is a cumbersome process to get in it for sure you can just unzip Your crotch area right and go to the bathroom go to the bathroom right so Those of you that do Want to be able to go to the bathroom while you're diving in your dry suit, right? You're basically putting a I don't know how to say it any other way both for men and women You're putting a condom on yeah, you're peeing out into the open. It's gonna leave the dry suit and go out into the open water Right for those that don't have it And if you think you're gonna pee a lot You're either gonna pee on yourself inside your dry suit which is not gonna be most people's preference or Guess what adult diapers. Yeah, I have to wear a diaper fine. No big deal. I I'm like you. I like that as well Yeah, okay, so that that's a really really good point What about the undergarments? There's a whole discussion and a whole realm so many different products So you got to think about what type of insulation what type of material and Then how is that gonna affect your weighting right? How is that gonna affect your warmth? So you have to also consider that and are you gonna be wearing multiple layers underneath it? That's right is your dry suit big enough to accommodate those layers. Yep that's a whole another area of purchasing and decision you have to make. Yep, and this is Potentially like the biggest game changer like I feel if you have You can have a super expensive dry suit, but if your undergarments are awful, you're gonna be cold Like it doesn't matter how much money you paid for it. You have your undergarment game has to be on point I agree. I tell you what I wear. I don't want to advertise any one product as a first layer. I like that exo wear by bear So it sort of wicks off water and there may be a little bit of dampness that's coming into your wrist seals or something But sweat for example. Yeah, so that way And it adds and it adds a layer of Warmth without layer adding buoyancy. So it's really nice. You can wear exo wear bear exo wear frankly as On a cold day just walking around outside. That's cool. So it's really nice It sort of wicks away water and then on top of that I wear my thicker Dry suit garments that You know just picture a thick cotton material over my entire body now that does add the need for more weighting and it Adds thickness and it obviously adds thermal protection for sure This is really going to be dependent upon the environment that you're diving in but I think you said it best That's the key in it is particularly in a tri-lay. I'm the lighter weight dry suits. That's the key To staying warm. That's right Yeah, and and what I do is depending on the water that I'll be diving on I'll either add or remove layers like I have this you know long johns or whatever that I can wear underneath my The fourth element you know stuff that I wear my my I think it's called Arctic or whatever And I wear that that socks pants Everything on and then on top of that I have the dry suit So if I'm going to Florida for example, which is 72 that's not very cold I don't wear like the underwear the long john stuff. I just wear the fourth element You know Arctic wear stuff and the dry suit and that's it. That's enough But you know, I'm comfortable even with a wet suit in the caves and that's another thing I think the caves for me is a good example of a place where a dry suit It's not just for protection of the cold, but it's also for trim and buoyancy control and you know having a secondary buoyancy control device that if my wing failed I can still Inflate because the tanks that I use for cave diving are massive They would just drop me to the floor. I had to and in a cave you need to be mostly feet up Correct, so that's perfect to put the bubble where it enables your feet Correct to be slightly feet up and you know we all were talking to you and convincing you started diving it And do you like it in the caves? Absolutely. Your trim was perfect. Yeah, absolutely It's definitely a nice kind of view And there's there's hoods we got to you know always think about the thickness of hoods boots Gloves yeah, dry gloves. I told you so your hands, you know That's what I just hooked up to mine for the ice diving you would not be able to have your What are you wearing by the way under the because dry gloves are like the dry suit you have to have undergarments on your hands You have to have regular gloves inside your dry gloves. They're built in to the ones I got. Oh, okay Very nice. They're already there. It's a very nice undergarment. Yeah, I to there's a decision that do you keep your wrist seals? Think about this do you keep your silicone wrist Seals on when you then also attach the dry gloves Hmm, that's an option because if your dry gloves for some reason leak or become detached Now you have a backup your wrist seals at least will keep you from completely flooding your hands are gonna freeze But no, you're body or and I'll look most people do this. This is what I'm doing That's difficult imagine trying to get your arm through that do the wrist seal and then also sliding all the way down into that dry glove That's so I don't I'm not keeping the silicone wrist seals on just the dry glove is attached And it's a really good attachment. I don't think you could possibly pop this thing off I hope so can't wait to hear the okay that I'm diving with that's how he does it as well But you have to understand that there's a risk associated with that and then my hand slides into a glove Of sorts that's inside the dry glove like you said. It's a garment sort of built into it. It's good. It's nice Okay, but the advantage of that is Now the air also can pass into your hands Whoa, which keeps them warmer game two are warmer when you take off the wrist seal That's right. That's what the other instructors like that's why I do it and I'm like Sold wow So that sounds awesome So there's a lot of little things out to really have to think about yeah And I know that I can attach a um, you know dry gloves into my my wet my dry suit as well I just I've just never done it like I feel For cave diving and stuff you need to the sincerity like time lines and doing stuff like if I if I was going in Iceland where all I need is Warm hands then yeah, I think I dry or I diving or I'm diving ice diving you're not You're really just gonna be holding on to a big thick rope right you're not expected in ice diving to be doing You're not like setting lines and cookies and arrows Do you have to go diving with a tether like a rope attached to you both two did Safety on the surface and to your buddy wow, okay, and in fact they do a fun little exercise where they're gonna They're gonna have you imagine that my feet are touching the ice above me So I'm hanging upside down, right and then through a signal by pulling the rope It's like a ready set go and you ski Across the entire ice they pull you back towards the opening upside down nice So it's like you're filmed doing this and it's like whoa there. There he goes flying That's cool, and it's a weird to look at the video like how do they do that? You're actually upside down Where is the bubble? It's mostly in your feet. Yeah, of course so it'd be cool. I mean I haven't done this before I don't it's an open circuit by the way. Yeah, it's open circuit. Okay, yeah You could do re-brea there, but we're well if they're gonna be upside down and stuff probably open circuit is easy Exactly. Yeah, right so you talked about buoyancy compensators got to use those got to test it with your dry suit Waiting what type of waiting yeah because that is like you said you had like You know a quarter of your body weight on weight or more than a quarter of your body weight On added weight when you did Iceland. It's a where are you gonna put it? Is it have integrated weights now? Is it have trim pockets? Is it a weight belt or is it like a weight There's like these I don't know how you describe them there It's a way to like like that go around your waist and they're like trim pockets that go all around your waist Those are very very nice. Yeah, so but that's gonna totally affect your Yeah, buoyancy again. Yeah, and and I remember you know after learning to dive with integrated weight pockets And going into a weight belt it it can throw you off like if you're not if you're not used to it and plus again If you're getting a weight belt, it's probably because you need like 40 pounds So it's a lot a lot of swinging you know of the weight around your your waist. Yep And in this case you can also what we're gonna do is I'm not gonna be bringing my own BCD because these guys I stive all the time so the BCD that I'm gonna be using Has a three millimeter stainless steel backplate nice built into it well The how about that for nice even displacement of weight right so and then what kind of tanks are they aluminum or they steel That's right, and we're gonna figure it out they told me don't worry We bring a slew of weight out there because nobody knows their weight when they first go in the first time they do ice diving You're gonna get is the fresh water it's the water is the lake. Okay, it's fresh water. Thank goodness. That's cool Yeah, okay, so we have to deal with that It's funny because what everyone like everyone listening to the show knows that you just want to do this because of the chainsaw like no one No one believes you want to dive on their ice like we listen to these episodes we know you're I want to put the ice that's all you want to do because listen in order to get the credit the check mark for the dive You have to 15 minutes, right? So I've been posting back on Facebook my die will be 15 minutes and one second So I don't make them mistake. I mean, it's like pull out probably. I mean, I'm probably gonna be pretty cool. So what am I wearing under it I'm bringing a lot of gear because we're also going snow skiing. Mm-hmm I'm still thinking about it. I really am. I'm gonna be wearing I don't want it to be too thick. So similar to what I wear in cave diving Plus my heater, but probably a little bit of a thicker shirt as well on top of on top of everything else like yeah And long underwear, you know, how they're thin. Yeah, yes, they're not but they add warmth So I'll probably just add that as well. Yeah, that's what I that's what I did for Iceland Yeah, and I'll just I mean three or four layers Be colder than you normally would be but yes, I only have to be that cold for 15 minutes and one second And it's funny because when you get in the water with all those layers you cannot feel it like you get in and we know the water is ridiculous It's 30 degrees or whatever but But uh, but you don't feel anything until you put your face in the water Then that's when you get slapped back to reality Yeah, nothing you can do about that. I'm wearing a seven mil hood and I think they start calling seven mils dry-ish At seven mils not too much water will be hitting the top of my head. That's right But yeah, it's a lot of stuff that's gonna be on me now That when we are doing the actual cutting which is my favorite part when I'm chain-signed and I feel like if there was this Chain cell specialty. That's where you would go for I'm sorry like I'll skip the diving Then we just get the but you're not in your dry suit They said you're actually gonna sweat it'll be a cold day and where it looks like we're even gonna be snowing when we're out there They said guarantee you you're gonna be sweating Then they have an actual tent all the way out there in the ice that's heated So you just have your dry suit in there you walk back in the tent you change and you go in the water And I'm not wearing my normal booties. I'm wearing my dry suit boots. They're thicker and bigger So I have fins That fit the dry suit boots because you need bigger boots right wearing dry suit boots. That's things for sure massive and thick I'm not risking my feet being freezing. No, I'm not gonna last Yeah, for sure so too bad that you're not gonna have the new dry suit to to test it That would be awesome while you're over there because I think that thing is gonna be amazing. I'm pretty excited about it But I don't So now you got to deal with dressing. There's a whole bunch of skills related to just dressing And you got to put on all of these undergarments and get in this dry suit some people say to use a Spray that is appropriate for the type of seal that you have to make it a good lubricant and I'm not gonna get take your thunder because I know you have a very Wise recommendation on the secret what so you could you could use some people will put a little bit of like the the O2 loop around the silicone that will hurt silicone you got to be careful with silicone and that doesn't hurt it and We would also Always I recommend and I always ask my buddy to help me. I don't try to reach around and pull those zippers on my own You can tear them or not zip them all the way. Yeah, what do you use? That's been super effective you said for you so so when I when I did the class they Recommend that talcum powder. They're like just use talcum powder because it's it's easy to do But I noticed that after I used it like once or twice and it was on the dry suit. That was rental It started to build like a paste and you can see the the wrist seals and stuff to be like the the paste of talcum powder start to stick to it and I I just didn't think that was gonna last very long for my own Dry suit so I did extensive research into this okay And I found some obscure Command somewhere that said the secret to dry suit diving is K.Y. Jelly personal lubricant water based It doesn't mess up with any silicone seals or anything is perfect. I've been using it That's exactly what I've been using every time I dive my dry suit that thing You slide through it like they're not even tight around your wrists or neck or anything is perfect to uh You know put the thing on and after you get in the water it just washes away like there's no residue no marks on it You cannot tell that you even had it it only works when you put it on it's easy to put on and then it disappears It's the best thing ever because if you don't use Something and you're not careful and you rip that seal yes, and you don't notice that you ripped it you could flood it But if you do rip it You got to get out of all of your gear all of the Undergarments that you put on and this stuff took you I don't know 15 20 minutes and imagine that now you the last step is sticking your hands through rip or your neck rip Everybody's waiting oh get out Repair it hopefully you have extras with you so absolutely bring extra And that's why you want to be able to repair those yourself. So yeah having that lubricant is really important I gave Nick from charquoise the the key Which was that that lubricant because he destroyed his wrist seal like the first time on the first dive He was gonna go out and he's the first one He's the one that puts the line on the boat and all of that So he was about to jump in like almost ready to go Bam destroyed the wrist sealed and he's really good at it He was like NASCAR like he replaced it like super fast But I'm just thinking like if that was one of the last divers to jump in the water And it was a drift dive like those five ten minutes that it took to repair that seal like you lost the group Like you know it would have been probably you lost the whole dive. So Um, I gave him the trick. He was like oh my god. I didn't even think about it like just try it It's like four dollars. It will last you like two years No, I'm definitely only using that for now on it's all plastic. It's unbelievable Yeah, that's a definite now because of you it's a winner. Oh winner For sure and again, you want to make sure that you you know that you're careful and everything is closed right Yeah, you got to make sure that thing is closed up all the way Yeah, and when you when you put those wrist seals That's another thing I know it is make sure that they are pretty high up on your wrist and great Because if they are close to your hand when you squeeze your hands The tendons and stuff the veins right on on your wrist like a channel will make a gap and water will come in So make sure you pull them up great point And then you got to be careful getting out of it as well for sure there's a whole bunch of procedures about getting out of it and um Yeah, again have your buddy help you Unzip it and so forth and when you do that unzipping everybody has that moment of oh my god Because you were a little bit squeezed when you came up and for sure now all of the sudden you unzip it and all of that air Just releases and you're back to feeling what it's your body is like oh This is what it's like not to be squeezed because you actually get used to being squeezed it's amazing nice feeling for sure The other thing I wanted to mention and again just to give the guys a sharp quest to shout out is They saw that we were freezing and they had I've never been an operator that has this by the way or maybe I haven't paid attention But they had this thing called boat coats Which we're like this oversized coats That were waterproof on the outside kind of like the same material that the dry suits are made of But then on the inside they were like fleece like a towel type of warm material Dude I threw that thing on it was the best like as soon as I got home I order one Absolutely awesome and they are amazing and the other thing about them is they're oversized So you can change inside of them like people use swimmers. I found them like swimmers cool They're out of the beach or whatever they put that thing on You pull your arms inside of the coat and they like they take their bathing suit off They put their clothes on like every total privacy underneath it is like having your own personal size tent that is warm So definitely recommend it. It was awesome There's a bunch of brands like you can do your own research I'm not pulling for one versus the other just that thing You know this this dry robe that you put and you know and are able to Yeah, where even with your gear man, it was it was awesome. I was wrapped myself all up and that after our dive That's for sure Well The other part of a dry suit diving that you have to think about is there's maintenance that goes along with these dry suits That's right and I will tell you that if you don't do the maintenance you are going to harm your dry suit Yes, I'm going to explain myself and say I think I was not Doing proper maintenance on mine, which is why it had to go in for repairs Those seals when you're sweating on them salty sweat and if you don't rinse out the inside of that dry suit and then Take the outer shell off turn your dry suit inside out, which is a bit of a pain and let the inside dry The person who repaired mine who's an expert in this said you're going to affect those seams and that's what we think Happened to yours over time now. That was a lot a lot of years and dry suit diving in it So you could you really have to take care of it you got to rinse it out You got to remove salt and mud and debris you got to make sure it's completely dry before storing it So don't leave it damp and wet especially with your sweat in it You've got to make sure the zippers are waxed Right the zipper is everything if that zipper is cracked that's going to let water come in The valves those are just like a regulator valve you got to flush them with fresh water And then you don't want to store particularly silicone it can be affected by sunlight It I guess destroys it evaporates it. Yeah, you don't want to just hang it outside let it dry or whatever In the middle of the sun because it will it will affect it then we're in it hot temperature Undergarments you got to take care of those you got to wash them So these are just general guidelines Those of you who are dry suit divers probably know that But those of you who are considering getting into it should know that this is part of what you would learn You would also even learn how to do some Some repairs which is like holes and stuff like that. Yeah And when and when would you need it? When would you need a repair? And what if you got a hole on your Shell of your dry suit is there anything that you can do on the spot? Is there little like seal sealant stuff? Yep, and I think at least my dry suit and I assume a lot of other brands too come with Like a few patches and you know a way to repair it And during the class like regardless of the agency you take it with I think I took mine with patty But I know the SSI material also has this information They teach you how to do maintenance and some repairs that will be applicable to most suits But obviously if you got one of these You know Interesting suits where where the materials is galvanized whatever like the rubber that rubberized, you know Double whatever They will come with their own You know Manual and instructions on how to repair them and all of that and of course if you're in doubt Find someone who knows what they're doing just like you did with the guy that is that repair your suit Yes A lot of good you get it by the way if there's little things like I wasn't exactly sure how to put these Dry suit gloves on I just these days. I just you two did there's this one guy that's got like 20 YouTube videos on just dry suit stuff this guy like mr. dry suit. So it's like perfect That's exactly what I'm gonna do good job So then the final thing we talked all about all this stuff outside of the water with the dry suit What can a diver expect to have to be able to do proficiently to get through a dry suit class Talk about let's both talk about some of those things. Yeah, well, I mean I think the the fact that you have an added like you mentioned Balloon that you're driving inside of it's going to be affected as you go down and as you come up Just like your BCD gets affected as you go down and come up your lungs like out affected as you go down These in an essence. So you have to learn how to do that you have to learn how to recover from You know getting the air on your feet and turn upside down But most of it is just you have to learn how to manipulate the air inside the suit. That's the big immediate Coordination, but let's just let's just talk about some of the other skills that are out there Mm-hmm first thing you got to do is you have to be able to Do a weight check or buoyancy check with a dry system. It's a little different Then doing it with a out of dry suit right and we're not here to teach you every skill right now But we're gonna go over that how about this? There's a lot of valves How about if the inflator valve is stuck closed? Yep, what if it's stuck Open that thing is firing air into you continuously. That's right What about if it's slowly leaks Right these are issues you have to deal with um You've got to be able to get neutral Are you going to do with your power inflator or or inflation air movement in the dry suit the inverted the famous inverted Diver position that we talked about that could happen yes Dry suit over inflation. What do you do? How do you get it back to Not being over inflated what if it floods what if it floods what if you have a uncontrolled ascent What do you do to make it a controlled ascent And then we talked to all about all about the care so you're going to be prepared By the end of a dry suit class to dive in a dry suit. Yes. Why did we say all of this? I would highly recommend that you don't go buy and a dry suit Put one on and get yourself down to a hundred feet and think you can just manage this without somebody teaching you Yeah, it's a progression it's slow and it starts with confined water You're going to start off in a very basic pool environment and build up to it. Don't do this. It's different But cold water diving is pretty cool. Yeah That was the theme of our show, but we had to go through this don't you think yeah absolutely And I think the other thing the other question that comes up a lot is well which one should I get that's another one that I get all the time Which one which one do you have and which one should I get and I think that obviously That answers a lot easier for people that are local to us because we can recommend places locally But if you're somewhere else overseas or whatever it is just go to your local dive shop There you go your local dive shop will will have the knowledge they've sold many of them They've used many of them. They'll have instructors that have work with different brands and different places service them They can service them etc So go to your local dive shop I know that it's a lot easier to Just go on online and Amazon and be like I think I'm an extra large or my do I look extra large? Yeah, let's just go with it. Just don't do that go to your local dive shop get measured try some live shop Even have like a like a test drive like you can try like maybe not in the water But like put them on how do you feel you know how how does it fit and then try another one and another one So depending on where you are with these days we review and all of that depending on where you are You know try to find people have experience with it your local live shop will help you out Yeah, and then and then what goes beyond this? What would be next after this first level of cold water diving and getting into Learning how to use a dry suit then it would be severe cold water diving like what I'm about to do ice diving And there's now Beyond the scope of today's conversation How do you deal with severe hypothermia? There's active warming there's inactive warming. How do you get the person out? What if they appear dead? Are they really dead when do you what do you? Right because the body is frozen, but it's not there's a lot more for sure that you get into like everything So there's different levels of cold water diving, but I think a lot of our listeners Would not have ever experienced this type of diving or Would not have known what all is involved with understanding cold water diving why you would want to do it and what type of Training you need to do it and then that had to tie into dry suit I hope it helped. I hope this gave some people. Yeah, don't run away from it, right? You don't always have to be Warm and beautiful now you live in Belize or something then yeah, okay, just do warm and beautiful every day You're getting up you're driving. Yeah, just you can just skip this show, but But um, you know, I don't don't be shy from it. I mean, there's a lot of cool stuff to see out there when it's where it's cold and you know We love doing it and hopefully we get people interested going to the local dive shop or whatever getting into it Getting the game next thing you know, we'll be doing eyes diving with chainsaws or just the chainsaw everybody Just imagine and I forget the other instrument that like pound first like pounds and breaks the ice Older, older, I'll go I forget. I don't even know the name of it. It's a it's a it's a power. It's a motorized instrument That's like pounding and breaking the ice along with the chainsaw. So you get to be the chainsaw guy What kind of pattern do you cut in the ice they teach you? I mean, I don't know. I'm getting ready to do this And by the way, they told us be prepared for your 15-minute dive to be out there all day We started 9 a.m. for 15 and we ended 5 p.m. It will take that long To prepare everything for this 15-minute dive That's a lot of preparation. Oh my right because we're just walking out into the middle of a frozen lake Do you have to get at least a high five from like a beluga whale to make that worth it because all day we're gonna be out there Right at 5 p.m. at 5.30 They should expect to see me in a hot tub somewhere in my in the little resort. I'm staying in that's awesome Gonna be thinking about yeah Thank you everyone for tuning in by the way if you want to see more of our adventure in I guess the Florida Panhandle Pensacola vortex spring that whole thing we recorded a video for the first time Of this trip you did this yeah Go check it out in our YouTube channel you search for dive talk or dive talk You just not even dive talk media And you'll you'll find it the trip to Pensacola we've got some pretty good reviews I know you just did a review on these two lights yeah the Orchard touches If I think you said that if you get a thousand subscribers you will give those away we're gonna give them away That's right. I think that's absolutely we're gonna give them a sort of a pattern if people want us to test their gear Yes, it's not because we want to give it away actually unless we get a rebrier then forget it I mean if you guys are sending me a custom-made dry suit it's gonna be really difficult for me to give that away Exactly. I'm saying the spirit of this is we want to be an information provider Yes about dive diving and I think we have a pretty good Knowledge to be able to review product because we've used a lot of them. Yes, and what's interesting I think will be gust that you and I not only will we maybe sometimes not have the same review We may take an entirely different approach for sure Which makes it interesting because We're each carrying about different things. Well, you got to try this on the water now Definitely got to try those lights underwater and yeah, and and that's just one thing in general I was really more talking about I thought your review was outstanding by the way And I love that you said if we get to a thousand subscribers We're gonna give them away. I don't know how we're gonna give them ways of random or something We'll figure out whoever sends us money probably Great now nobody's ever gonna And that's a joke everybody. Yeah, we'll give away for free The other thing I was gonna mention is we actually got a request So we Accept requests there info a dive talk media.com or leave us a comment on the youtube channel But somebody asked you to review the david Shaw Last dive. I don't know if you're familiar with it where he was doing like a thousand foot dive on a rebrea They're trying to beat the world record and he found a body like at the bottom of this thousand foot hole And then he tried to go rescue it and he got tangled and died essentially So I want you to review it and talk about why did that like why did the guy okay? I got tangled but why did he die like what caused that he wasn't a rebrea there? So he didn't run out of air. He's not about running out of air So I think people want to you ask that because we learn a lot Unfortunately, we don't want to but we do learn a lot about act from accidents Absolutely, and that's how we get came up with the five principles of cave diving Absolutely and and we want to cover more stuff like that because that's where you get the lessons right a lot of these Accidents and deaths teach us important lessons. So Good people have asked you know to to talk about david Shaw We'll be recording that and then people can check that out in our YouTube channel So once again subscribe. We're about 200 subscribers now once we hit a thousand These two lights are gonna go away And you know again as we get stuff we'll just continue to give it away to our listeners very cool Thank you everyone for tuning in and like I said if you have any questions or comments for me or Woody Reach out to us info at divetalkmedia.com Hopefully you enjoyed this episode. We'll see you in two weeks safe diving safe diving everybody