title: Episode 31: How do you know if you are a good diver?
author: DIVE TALK
contenttype: podcast
publication: DIVE TALK
published: 2021-03-19T21:52:37-04:00
sourceurl: https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/divetalk/Episode31Full.mp3?dest-id=1756346
word_count: 7752
Hello and welcome everyone to dive talk episode number 31 31 already I know right that's awesome time flies We're actually shooting this one on video as well. So if you're listening to this on one of your apps For the podcast you know to listen to the podcast you can go to our YouTube channel I just go to youtube.com search for dive talk and I will pop up and that way you can see me and Woody talk about this life Because people ask like how much editing do you guys do in the shows? Get ready. Wow you'll see we're I don't think we're just literally about to have a conversation There's no practice no practice. We zero practice. Yeah, but out of fairness We have we have a pretty good amount of dive knowledge and we both right experienced divers, so right and I like that you mentioned the fact that we're we're experienced divers because the topic today is kind of about that Okay, I wanted us to talk about Those divers out there that are essentially saying like am I a good because I feel like once you get a couple dozen dives like 24 dives or so 25 You start feeling like I'm pretty good at this. I'm pretty good at diving right now And I I wanted to I was wondering if there's a way in which divers can Self-assess like am I good and I think that we should try to come up with a system or a way so people can Assess themselves and be like where are you on the scale of Brand-new diver to expert diver. Yeah, it's interesting that you're saying this under patty They actually have a self-assessment slate. Wow. I didn't know that so we would as one of the required skills We teach I teach for patty and for SSI and a bunch of agencies patty had this One of the required skills under patty was after I think it was confined water dive three they had to do a self-assessment It didn't use the words good or bad and this is gonna be an interesting way I'm gonna try to answer this question. Are you good? I don't like that word in diving are you comfortable? Is how patty Put it right and they would you would put a smiley face on the skills you felt Comfortable with that you could repeat Pretty easily without having to think about it too much Versus a frown face they would put like I want to practice this skill war SSI does something similar they just do it by Having something called comfort through repetition so SSI rather than do a Single slate where you're evaluating yourself all at one time they want you to continually evaluate yourself Continually practice the skills to determine Did your repetition make you comfortable? I'm setting the stage right now is all I'm doing for are you a good diver or not? I'm sure we're gonna talk about various things as it relates to a dive and then I'll give an opinion this is completely subjective of what I think would make somebody comfortable in my mind on doing that. Yeah, the word good is tricky because Boy every dive is different well. I could tell you you may be good in one situation But I just recently went ice diving and I wasn't good Yeah, and I've got 7,000 plus dives and I would call myself This guy's not too good Ice diving Okay, so it depends on the environment that wasn't that wasn't the greatest example of all your experience I guess on that ice that it's 32 degrees But on the surface it was a blizzard and we were waiting in the water on the surface for 20 or 30 minutes as regulators kept Free-flowing because they were freezing over. Yeah, so you have 30 minutes of freezing before you even go under and It's ice diving and it's a whole new experience. So was I good? No, because was I comfort comfortable? No, I wouldn't call myself a good ice diver. I don't have much experience with ice diving I can have one experience with ice diving now you and I are also instructors for an agent called iNTD And one of the things that are part of the courses that you deliver is you have to do a watermanship evaluation Kicking buoyancy trim all that stuff which is great and I think that is a good Beginning to determine if you're a competent diver. Maybe we don't use the word good But are you competent? So when I think about like what are the pillars that would determine if someone is a competent diver Or a good diver however whatever word you like to use in this one I think that we can start putting together a list of Pillars and I think the first one we should start with I think we both agree is buoyancy and trim 100% agree so there's no argument there that buoyancy and trim have got to be Yeah, yes, it goes hand in hand with a couple others. I'm thinking of it But I'm gonna put I will agree with you that's got to be that's got to be really a top one Now the thing about buoyancy and trim to assess whether or not you have Car comfortable with your buoyancy or trim or you have good buoyancy or trim Has to do wouldn't you agree with being a super relaxed diver for sure that definitely adds to it In order to be super relaxed you've got to really be comfortable in your gear and you got to be properly weighted And it takes time to figure that out Your breathing is going to help considerably with your buoyancy your gear Configuration is going to start to help with your trim What do I think is a good diver as it relates to buoyancy and trim They really have good air consumption so their surface air consumption rate Is pretty low because they're very comfortable at that point and I would say for the vast majority of the dive They're in the diver position You don't see them kicking a lot They're never really using their hands and their breathing isn't necessarily the same throughout the dive They're regulating their breathing based upon the need of what they need to do in that particular moment Sometimes they're just sipping there like Other times are inhaling a little bit more maybe to help them go up and Exhaling war to go down And you'll notice that they really don't use that low pressure inflator hose very often It's a buoyancy compensator adjustment I would rather call it It's just a little adjuster every once in a while To help but it's not the main factor that's controlling your buoyancy That would be what I would define as in your terms as somebody that's Good or and I think comfortable I think the first indication of being competent with your buoyancy is the fact that you're using your breathing To go up and down and kind of manage your buoyancy a lot I mean you can still use your BC But I find myself using my breathing a lot when I'm doing open circuit diving Obviously on re-brithers we don't it doesn't affect your buoyancy But in open circuit, I think that would be the first sign that you're going on on the right path That the fact that you can say trim and you can say on the water column not deeper or going up and down just flat And as you breathe you can come down a little bit and go up a little bit But you're kind of staying like a submarine and maybe the judgment point I think you and I would maybe agree on this is once you're near the end of your dive You're going to sort of you are going to make a safety stop between 15 and 20 feet Your tank is already lower on air And you'll notice that the divers that are if you want to say the word good They're just sitting there and they're safety stop in a perfect diver position Relaxed with going out their computer waiting And they're Breathing really calm Moving up a little bit slightly moving but they're just they're not having to sit there and kick and their safety stop where their legs are a thousand miles an hour And they're constantly deflating everything re-inflating deep everything is little baby adjustments so little Little bit of air we was released and now you're right at the right point just from your breathing as you said for sure So that that would be a good judgment time if we had to evaluate somebody how well are you able to maintain that neutral boyant good trim position during a safety stop Yep and you mentioned what I considered to be the the second pillar in this whole test Or self-assessment test which is breathing If you are running out of gas way faster than everyone else That's probably a good indication that you have a lot of work you know to do To get more competent about controlling your breathing and you don't have to be The best one right. It's not a competition. You don't have to be the one that comes out with the most psi There's nothing special about that You know when I was um when I was a dive master I would go on on dives with Other divers and we would come up on the boat and I would be like well how you know how much Air you have left or whatever and they'll say Well, you know 700 psi and I'll look at mine and it's 1800 like what's the point? I just I have 1800 but what if I had a thousand twelve hundred like who cares He doesn't matter It's all about are you just blowing through your airway faster than everyone and you talked about sakrate so what are you talking about so So what we want of your consumption? Yeah So look this comes with experience because the experience is gonna make you relaxed now I Don't want people to start diving and forcing themselves to use less air because then they're skip breathing Right, they're not taking normal breaths. They're Timing their breaths so they're actually Holding their breath a little bit which can cause a carbon dioxide build up So I want you to breathe normal But the amount you inhale and the amount you exhale each time Can start to get more relaxed less volume of inhaling less volume of exhaling based upon need and the second thing is the experience divers simply It's not that they're that much better at Not needing as much air. It's that the good divers aren't doing anything They're doing less they're not swimming all over the place They're just chilled They're moving as little as possible in a good neutral position They're properly weighted so they simply don't have to use as much energy And they don't have the need to breathe as much It's not like you're able to just train yourself look how in shape. I am cardiovascular wise I don't have to breathe as much. No, I'm just not doing anything when I dive And most experienced divers are super chilled And they and you're gonna have way better marine life experience that way as well Because if you're chilled and you see a shark you see a ray and you don't chase after it That stuff will circle back around and trust you It's sort of testing you and you used way less air for sure So I think those two things to me are very very important as the two pillars of it What other thing do you do you think about when he comes to Self-assessment or what a good diver would be Right at the very beginning on that boat You can tell The folks that are relaxed they're putting on all their gear right they are they're not Struggling to get their gear on they're not needing a lot of assistance their their fins are already on their mask was already in place Ready ready to go when that guy says hey It's time to get off the back of the boat. They're not panicked And freaking out their eyeballs aren't used their mask was on their face the reg was in their mouth jumping off the boat without fins BCD's inflated the fins were on They're not sweating profusely. I get it on a hot day. You may but they're just calm So you can you'll notice it you just watch them put on their gear and it's a very methodical organized process And you know what else the good divers do They don't forget to do a buddy check It's the bad divers that don't do the buddy check they take the four minutes and look at each other Yep, my Arizona my BCD is all strapped up computer is on it's reading good My ditchable weights are in my weights are in insecure. I have the right around a rate I feel good. I'm ready to go. I understand my buddy's gear configuration on those same manners 434 minutes they checked each other ready to go yep great They're ready to go and then that makes that captain or dive master's job so much easier And when that mask is on your face and they see that you're ready to go They know that you're a good diver and then you're got to the back of the boat. You did a logical calm entry Then you lift it up that inflator and you're getting down You're not floundering at the surface and can't get down because you're kicking and you dumped your air And you're like I can't get down I need more weight no you didn't need more weight You just dumped that air and you went down so that process of getting in the water and us descending Is another to me very good indication of a good diver for sure and I think that I'll go beyond and say that when he comes to readiness It starts way earlier than on the boat I think that starts at home when you're packing your gear Having the right equipment for the right type of diet so you're gonna be And I've learned a few lessons from you on this um One of the biggest ones that I learned was the fact that you keep a separate list for waiting You like you don't know everything and I think people when they when they see an instructor they think that yeah Well, he's an instructor. He knows exactly how much weight he needs in every single configuration that is possible No, we'd rely on Yep, we'd rely on Keeping records we log our dives which is another thing that I noticed a lot of divers don't do We log our dives we track our equipment and we have a list of all the Convinations and the weights. Yep. So if you're watching either way It says surface supply weight in cold water weight in yeah for different surface just surface supply weighting and then even when I bring it up my re-breeder weighting I have all these different Numbers in there it'll say well did I have one tank that I have two tanks was it fresh water was it saltwater was I in a Wetsuit five mill three mill dry suit. Yep. I I I like to note it I don't remember but it really helps yep, and I look at it I'm like oh okay, this is kind of diving. We're gonna do okay. This is about the kind of weight I think I'm in a need so I used to keep track of it on the nodes within the dive log In the SSI app that would you know we mean would you are instructor for SSI? They have a dive log and within the dive log I will dive the log and say let's say I was a I don't know Speagle Grove and I would say here's the equipment that I had I even put the mills like I had a wetsuit this mill The boots were this mill had a boot or not lights that I took like everything in there And how much weight I use but I even go beyond and I say how was the way distributed? So I say I had two four pounders in the front and two two pounders or my tram weights or whatever like I go A little bit beyond and I learned up from you So I think readiness starts way before you even get to the boat is Be prepared mentally and logistically to tackle that dive and don't bring a bunch of unnecessary stuff Like yeah, don't be over-prepared either because people just bring a bunch of crap into dives. They don't need they do and and and they actually They try to shove Too much stuff Into their dive bag I try to get students not to do this. I actually This is a matter of preference. I what I like to do is I actually like to have my wetsuit on Up to my waist before I get on the boat. That's right It's one less thing I got a carry because that transition from laying onto a boat is tricky and that dive bag can get super heavy And I'll tell you what else makes the dive bag Converse him is shoving your BCD in it. Yeah, I actually don't I'm not you can think about it If I'm cl- if I'm going on the boat and I might wetsuit up to my waist I actually wear the empty BCD. I'm just wear it Yeah, and I'm just carrying a much lighter dive bag at that point because every time you've been snorkels All that is in the dive bag and it's so much easier because now your BCD is ready to go Right you get on the boat pop it right on there and the regulator is way easier to get out of the dive bags Not getting all caught up on stuff. That's true and your wetsuit is already on. Yeah, I'm sucking it over heat You just being over your legs plus every time you get on a boat for all most times you're gonna On a boat the tanks are already set up like on the tank holders So you can literally take the BCD off your back and put it on a tank. Yes I just ask like where what's my spot? What are you're here? You just go? Slide it on tank good to go. So if I see somebody doing that. I know you do that by the way as well. I'm like That guy's a good diver And at the same time you can tell like sometimes when you're on boats You know that everyone is giant striding out of the back And we're already right as soon as they say 10 minutes you were like going from the waste You know we we strap on completely on the wetsuit What ready to go sometimes even earlier than that depending on the weather Um, and by the time they say five minutes where like fins are on like we're ready to go So when we get there and they say dive dive dive We're jumping in but the one that is discouraging is when we're like closer to the front You know to the bow of the boat and the guys that are supposed to jump in ahead of you They say five minutes and they're still like oh yeah, where's my wetsuit again? Like I know like oh man It's I'm not gonna be last especially in a drift dive if you do that If you're not ready in the south Florida drift dive You're gonna blow right over the spot Let's sometimes we're diving to a wreck Yeah, and you're drifting onto the wreck and those captains know where to drop you If you don't get in drop and go down You're blowing right behind you'll go down and see sand yeah, so that's really important You definitely don't want to don't want to delay the girl Uh, we weren't cost a mill. Yeah, well, we weren't cost a mill. Just a funny story when we weren't cost a mill diving I was in a boat with Mike Young. I think you were on the other boat um And Mike Young has no chill For like delays, right? He's like we're here. We're diving. I'm in. I love that I love that so he jumped off the side of the boat with like the fencing his hands like he's like He didn't even have him in his feet. I'm like I forget it Just jumped off the side of the boat. I'm like oh my god. Just just just just to be in the water like immediately Working here. This is the side. Let's go down. What are we waiting and then I saw you do the same you jump But I think you're roll your roll back. Oh no, I I jumped I jumped because it's pretty high on that part So I just stood up and jumped I'm like I'm out of here. I'm not climbing through all those people and all their gear all the way in the back of the boat But I wouldn't encourage that you need to follow that boat operator's procedures We're pretty this was pretty experienced tech we happen to be on a on a tech guy I'll tell you another one that I'll I'll add that's up there for me Is Are the divers that you're diving with for the most part during the dive following the rules Another words they're not really exceeding their limit if we plan to dive to 100 feet We're going to 100 feet We're following our dive plan. We're not blowing it off and all of a sudden We're no longer anywhere remotely close to the gas planning that we thought we were gonna need Were not anywhere near where we thought we were gonna be so we're getting lost You know they can navigate they know with the if they tell you it's a drift dive They basically know where the group is at all times and they're not getting blown off track from the rest of the group or if it's Not a drift dive they tend to be in control of where they are They are using their compass they could get back to the boat on their own They're just aware of what's going on during the dive and they followed their dive plan and they didn't exceed The limits that they're trained on that's a good diver It's not impressive to me when somebody goes oh man I just went down to 130 and I'm not trained to go down to 130 that actually makes me Think that they are very inexperienced and foolish. Yeah, so I respect when people are like I just followed my dive plan And we've got a great dive Yep absolutely Just to add another pillar, you know now that we're talking about let's see so far we have Trim and Boyen see Number two is air consumption three is following your dive plan and you know we're getting all Oh three is ready. Yeah four is four I think the fourth pillar is and you mentioned this already But I think is Fitting techniques and how to move through the water and that's one of the things that I think you see More on brand new diversies. They rely on their hands a lot I did you know I was a swimmer on my life. I jump in the water. I want to use my hands like that's what you do in swimming But at some point you realize that you need your hands. When when will you need your hands on a dive? computer Low pressure inflator hose pulling a dump valve adjusting straps carrying other things holding a light lights line Your hands are useless when you're scuba diving. They're not giving you any anything else Maybe for a second you move a hand to get a little Adjustment on a trim or something but for the most part they're not doing anything right but what is important Is kicking technique so not bicycle kicking that's useless as well straight leg and not a lot of kicking or frog kicking And the second thing I was going to say yeah using the right fins for the right environment Is a very important sign to me of a good diver Sometimes split fins are wonderful You're for example, let's say we're going to be in an environment where it's super chilled and mellow I'm not going to ever have to be fighting against current and you just want a very easy relaxed fin Split fins. They're great, right? Other times you need a more powerful wider fin. Maybe it's shorter. Maybe it's a tight environment like you're going to be inside of a wreck And you need a shorter stockier fin that also has current that would not be conducive to a split fin So the right fins and the right kicking techniques for the environment that you're in I'm just getting these things out because you brought up fitting techniques for sure It's a good good indicator and I feel that this is something that new divers can practice on their own Like even inside a pool you don't have to go because people would say it's like well I don't have that trip on I don't have that Bahamas trip until the end of July like well You don't have to wait right in a lot of cases not every case But in a lot of cases the dive shop that you get certified with they'll give you some time to practice Especially before your open water dive checkout dives right perfect point right so Talk to a dive shot or your dive shop go to their pool and spend some time kicking right Don't use your hands Can I do a lap through the pool without using my hands? Can I go up and now with my breathing like all of the things that we were just talking about Yes, they work at the sea, but they also work inside a pool Right excellent point I couldn't agree more So definitely practice let's see so Indicators of a good diver I'm trying to think if there's anything else in particular We've talked about a lot of them You know I'm not what what isn't jumping out to me is like wow Look at them clear in their mask or look at them clear in the regular that that sort of emergency skill So and let somebody as an emergency I'm not really judging them If they happen to have an emergency and they handled it calmly and so forth that would be another indicator of a of a good diver But you're not gonna hopefully you're not gonna see that maybe your entire life of diving So I don't want to throw it out there, but if if you ever did see a diver help somebody else in need We just watched a video where we saw People that weren't helping people in need very good and other people that were That's a good diver like you're a good buddy and if your buddy is struggling You're calm you're cool and you're just helping them Yeah, I'm not overly helping them you're helping them to the extent that it's going to Enable them to get back to be able to handle and handling the dive on their own That's a good that's a good buddy and I think that you know one of the things that I like The we do when it comes to cave diving is once in a while not all the time But once in a while we do bail out we do practice Those emergency skills because the last thing you need is to have a boom situation where you're rebreed There's steps working inside two thousand feet inside a cave and then be like how do I bail out again? Like because I haven't done it in five years That's right right, so I think that is good to practice those things and I've seen this and I'm sure you've seen it too In boats where divers will be like hey just so you know to the dive operators Just so you know, I'm gonna fire my SMB in this dive. Yes, I'm not an emergency. I'm just practicing And again, you don't have to do it all the time But like once or twice a year get your SMB fire from death That's not an easy skill. It's not an easy skill especially really need it So we need to practice I need to practice that that's a skill that can get rusty The next time we go diving I haven't fired my SMB from depth in a while. Yeah, I want to fire it I know that how hard that skill can be for sure. That's a that's a really good one to indicate a good diver The South Florida drift divers man those guys are amazing at fire and SMBs They got to fire it a lot Right. Yeah, that's a natural thing for them But practice those skills right practice those skills once in a while You know, I'm not saying drop your weights in the middle of the ocean But you know if you're practicing in a pool and you want to practice dropping your weights on their sending how that works whatever Just practice. There's nothing wrong with that and again if you're on a dive in the open scene You want to practice something like your SMB You can always just tell the boat people the boat captain the boat the operator surface support Hey, I'm gonna be doing this thing just so you know and they'll be cool with that I'm gonna tell you one other one that I just remembered that's a big one for me The guy on the boat Or lady on the boat that is telling you non-stop of how good of a diver there I've done this many dives. I know this. I know that I know everything there is to know and they're just Talking talking talking talking talking talking number one. They're nervous because they're talking talking talking Yeah, and they're bragging bragging I was on a live aboard dive boat with Chelsea Who is the manager at the dive shop and see ventures that we work for and the guy that was bragging the entire time His wife ran out of air and could not and when she he got to the surface He just stood there and froze as she was bobbing up and down. He didn't reach over in manually inflator bcd She died and they had to bring her back. Yeah, they had to bring her back. They had to give her Chess compressions and and air yeah, yeah, so they had to give her full CPR and an 8 ed so yikes if people are just Relax on the boat you don't need to tell everybody that you know everything you've ever done because that's an indication that you're probably nervous and you are insecure so Don't do that is don't that is You know one thing I think that if we we talk about the other side about what what doesn't make you a good diver is Having every single card from the agency that you happen to be certified with doesn't necessarily make you a great diver. Yeah, right And and also having or the best equipment that you the money can buy Doesn't necessarily make you a great diver like we love sheer water computers We love you know amazing regulators and re-breaters But just because you can afford to have the best set of regulators out there Doesn't mean you're automatically a good diver absolutely I agree yeah because there's people are like okay now that I'm a good diver I should really invest on the best right so like I'd rather you have a cheaper reg and like nail your Boyancy in your trim yeah rather than now some people aren't gonna like this comment I kind of like to be controversial sometimes all right let's drop it Our cave divers as a group this is a very general statement Among the best divers I think oh, I mean sure let's let's let's be honest think about your training Yeah, any train you've ever done cave diving you've got to have all these things that we just talked about yeah as what describes a good diver Downpacked and more because you're gonna have to do a lot of multitasking so those things got to be Like perfected while you're multitasking inside of a cave right so and cave diving was really amazing To take a cave diving training was The first training I did that I could fail that I felt like I could fail. Oh, yeah like because like I mean let's face it If you're doing like deep diving like unless you die you're gonna pass like you're gonna get that card at some point You do your dive safely you come back alive you take the exam which you can take unlimited times Basically, it's not that hard and you get the card like I never Cabe diving Some on my instructor would remind me you You may be coming back to another trip. Yeah, I mean not well I don't give you earn this certification. I'm not a cave dive instructor, but I don't know many cave dive instructors that will look at you and not say you are gonna have to earn This certification because it's not that they're trying to be hard. They're trying to make sure that you don't die We don't we use the word death in cave diving. I'll have if you don't do this right You die if you don't do this right you die Right, I mean that's the ramification. Yeah, there's no such thing. Oh you didn't do that. Okay, right? Well you died You're gonna loss and you die so you do this and you know You didn't know how to you got tangled up in your own line or you didn't know how to set the line or you didn't put the line out or you Silted out the bottom or you didn't plan your air correctly You died. Yeah, and uh, it's it's funny because you know, I love dog. I know you love dog as well and what the last time when I delivered that class within nor moxic class It was like the first like technical class for everyone coming up And I know the name of the class is like advanced recreational nitrox, but it's a tech class like you're you're going beyond limits You're doing decompression. Oh, yeah, you're outside the no-diko limit, right? So I think it's a tech diving class But but anyway you get all these people that are coming. They're not tech divers This is the first class and we talk about death a lot Like yeah, cuz they don't do that in the recreational classes. Oh my god. Yeah, you have to be real Yeah, and I remember you're joking with dog and I'm like no, you're really selling this class You're really selling this whole deep diving thing because listen to this we're sort of like whoa, but it is serious But you can do it and Not die and be safe But you have to do the training and you have to practice the techniques that you're Taught in the in cave diving a lot like you said and you have to actually then use those things every time I mean you know when we go take cave diving we sit there for 10 minutes on the surface and do our estuels And we all say this is my gear configuration. This is my air We do an entire set of estuels every single time We always have the minimum amount of gear required so that I would have to say Cave divers are in general in general. I know there's exceptions. I'm horrible cave divers out there They're pretty good divers. Yeah, as a group of divers. I got to rake them among the best that I've seen Yeah, yeah, and that's why we say that is the black belt of scuba diving I think by the time you're doing that training you're very experienced You're not you're not a brand new diver and going into caves, but how I mean After you do your cave dive training. I mean are you itching to go cave diving right now? Oh my god How much I literally we want to be in a cave right now. Oh yeah Right, I mean would you not be I mean I'm counting down the days. It's 12 days. Yeah, no till we go diving amazing Is there anything else that we should think about when it comes to self-assessment? I think that you know we've kind of hit the the biggest points um I think that there's also you know things like how frequent are you diving and how good of a body you are I think you can go into details with you know I know the lesson that I learned from you which is you're constantly thinking about what's my exit strategy if something happened right now Where do I go how do I react touch I touch my touch here? I touch something here or whatever in my mind and close my eyes of this is what I would do right now Gus ran out of air that's When I'm diving. I'm like Visualizing. Yeah, I'm gonna pass. I'm gonna grab. I do a I do that is pretty a lot in cave diving. I'm touching Could I grab this what would go on and I do an open water diving as well? It's not the whole dive I don't obsess over it, but I'd say two or three times during a dive. I'm doing a quick visualization of an emergency. Yeah, nobody know nobody even knows I'm doing it to be honest, but I do Then it makes me feel Like I got this situation under control sure if it ever went bad and I would be a good buddy and also and also my own right or our own because we have that You know regulator that is sitting under the VSV Yeah, which we would have to bail out to if something happens I Touch it like it's right here. It's right there. It is we're good to go. Okay. I would close I would put it in my mouth. It really helps to you know do that. Yeah practice that so it's definitely take it seriously So I think Those are the things. Yeah dead. Yeah, we didn't get into academics as does somebody know their dive physics well Does somebody really know how to do gas planning well? I would add gas planning is an important indicator of a good diver Particularly once you're going outside the no decompression limit Yeah You already mentioned coming up with the right amount of gas at the end of a dive for all divers as an indication of a good diver Like if they tell you to be back on the boat with 500 psi you're back on the boat All the time with that that's right some divers. You'll see they're like they Come back and their tank is like almost drained. That's an inexperienced diver Yep, and and be a good body. Of course, right be close to your body. Yes Don't just go and do your own your own thing. So that's why I love diving with you. I know They I feel very confident like you've got me. It's not just me got you. I need you too. Yeah It's very comfortable to have a partner like this in diving gusts and I do a lot of diving together a lot of technical very technical cave diving together And I know when when I see him or I see his light it's it's very comforting He's got the same gear. He I know the training he's been through and It's nice to to develop that with somebody if you can yeah, it really is and speaking of lights I want to mention that we have four orca torch lights that we're gonna be giving away Yes, once we hit a thousand subscribers on YouTube. Oh, yeah So if you're listening to this and you're testing them you haven't checked our YouTube channel go and check it out We're doing some product reviews Orca torch sent us two lights we review them kind of just the unboxing they haven't been on their water Getting ready to do an underwater review. Oh, yeah, it's gonna be orca if you're listening I have my own way of evaluating lights. It's it's it's I'm just gonna it's you'll see It's gonna be real and I by the way I think your lights could have end up being stellar. I just don't know. I don't even want to know I want to be completely objective Yeah, and everything from how it feels to the light to the ease of use underwater Is it easy to go wide beam is it easy to go narrow beam? You know I'm gonna be checked Check everything. It's pretty objective. There's not gonna be a lot of stuff because then people are gonna get lights that have been Throwly tested Yeah, and they can watch the review of the live that they win. Yeah, so yeah If you're listening to this and you haven't subscribed in in you know our YouTube channel Please go ahead and do that. I want to continue to do giveaways like if any other company senses any product Um, by the way, somebody reach out to send me a book Uh book that they wrote about nice this guy who was like an amazing diver. I'll read it and review it I mean, that's yeah, and I like doing that and I like that um and I'll give away the book Yeah, like so I don't want companies out there to think oh these guys just doing all this because they want product We're gonna give it away. I mean we don't we're not looking to keep this for ourselves. We just love scuba diving that much for sure, so we enjoy Seeing companies develop great product is very nice for us But we're gonna give it away to our subscribers for sure not keeping anything for ourselves here And yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, I was excited because orca torch was the first lights that I bought when I became open water certified And they've been through hell and back with me and they still work you say that things like a tank It's a tank dude. They're awesome. So they sent me the ease and I wanted to compare how the new ones are with the old ones Apparently, they like the the review because they asked me to be a brand ambassador. You did a great job for for orca torch So now I'm on an official brand ambassador for orca torch, which means very cool I get to help them develop and test products and yeah Whatever I get from them. I'm gonna give away. And you deserve you were very objective. I mean you're not you're you were like Let me tell you what I don't like. I don't like this or that but I love this or that I mean, I thought you did a really good job And that was the condition right with them is like look I'll be a brand ambassador or but if I don't like the light I'm not gonna go on the internet and say that it's great. I'm gonna tell you that I hate it or whatever They do great stuff So I'm I'm looking forward to testing some of the other lights and Cool me too. Helping them develop new stuff But other than that again, subscribe in you know on YouTube and help us get to a thousand subscribers so we can get in there right we're growing Yeah, we're close to 500 right now So we're good guys. We're on the way there And also check the cave diver react series which we have a lot of fun recording We'd react to other videos and movies and last one we just did oh We just recorded one the first one we ever did where we're both reacting that's right add on screen at the same time Gus was able to set that up Wow the one of them. I'm still I'm just hinting to you. I'm still blinking my eyes like And that one that will come in a few days after the podcast goes live so make sure you stay tuned for that Yeah And and check it out because it's hilarious in some ways Stereo and scary some other ways But other than that you know just save diving guys. Thank you so much for tuning in We'll see you on the next one. Would he any last words? Not really thanks everybody. I really appreciate that you care and helping us build that's really appreciated so See you on the next one. See you guys