title: Episode 33: Complete DISASTER during our Cave DPV Class
author: DIVE TALK
contenttype: podcast
publication: DIVE TALK
published: 2021-04-23T12:00:00-04:00
sourceurl: https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/divetalk/Episode_33.mp3?dest-id=1756346
word_count: 10335
Welcome everyone to dive talk episode number 33 This one it's been a few weeks in the making I feel like We've been talking about this DPV class that we were gonna do and humbling I'm just saying it was humble time really was yeah, it didn't go as well as our other courses in the past I've been I would say that's a safe thing to say well for me. I'm gonna say my performance was The problem well for me. I and what I mean go as well overall, but that's I'm just I want to be clear What I mean is I've never failed Scuba class like this right that I my performance was so bad that I was like yeah me too. I don't deserve it Like I knew I failed myself like I absolutely I Agree I I failed and I've never failed one and I deserved for sure that part let's set that stage right up front We deserved not to pass this class for sure 100% The the one thing I wanted to mention is and people also by the way can see us on YouTube What recording this and they can if they want to see our faces in our reactions Go ahead and do that if you're listening to this as part of the podcast and want to see our faces and See these super cool teachers. We just got from Brian Becker from Beardstown part fire department, which I told him like dude. That's a guy with a beer I mean it doesn't get any better than working at the beerstown fire department. That sounds just really nice Absolutely very nice of Brian, but if they want to see us go there and and check us out on our YouTube channel dive talk Just search for dive talk and they'll find us but The one thing I wanted to talk about was Why we got into DPV's on the first place? So I think we should start with that okay and then talk about the actual class and kind of our future plans as well Like what are we gonna do now that we failed miserably? Well, we learned and we're gonna improve that's what the main theme is for me learned what I need to improve on that's right so Spoiler alert we failed so we let's just start with that but Absolutely, okay, so for me Obviously, I've always I've seen videos and I've even seen divers using DPV's before Especially when you're cave diving you're so jealous that all these people just swim by you while you're pulling and Struggling right to swim against the current places like Jeanne Springs and Little River and other caves with with flow But the first time I tried one it was dog's DPV We were on a super big cavern very very open cavern called view for spring and Dog brought his DPV. We were just there diving for fun and he was like he just signal to me You want to try it? I'm like yes, and I immediately went to full speed and I thought it was the best thing ever And I remember coming out of that dive and you were there too and The first thing was in like how you doing how you feeling? It was just like we're buying a DPV Immediately like I was sold so fast on that thing I've never I've never tried anything that I said Seriously, I need to get one of these and actually move forward and get it Yes, like I think we rode the check like two days later Yes, after we a few days later after we decided which one was it that we were gonna get yes How was it for you? Do you have any experience before people? My experience was I've rode one before at inner space a few years ago They were letting us try some Inner space had something they would have this famous run you could do from one place to the other in the ocean It's pretty much a straight run on it a lot of fun Not too much experience besides that so I was pretty inexperienced on it as well, but same thing, you know try and one and and basically Thinking about how unbelievably Beneficial and nice it would be to go through what we've done a number of dives on where we've caved dove and Florida by swimming because that's all we're We're cave certified. We're not cave DPV certified to do right. Wow would that be nice That's right So I was hooked because of that and there are also the fun factor so before we get into the class It's just they're a blast. I mean you're kind of like on a motorcycle underwater It's fun. It's your cruising around you can change the speed You know you got to be careful right because they can go up quick and down quick That's not good for diving in general so There's a lot to learn but when you're just on one driving around for fun You're not really performing any skills nothing's going wrong You're not having to tow anybody you're not going through any tight areas Yeah, you don't have to swim out of broken one You don't have to multitask while having one on you your point C doesn't really have to be all that good at just playing around Yeah until a class that's right That's not humbling is now what we're gonna add into yep So after we we tried I think we tried a black tip piranha was the the DPV that we tried Yeah, it was so I started looking into DPVs for us To get and we of course we didn't have to get the same one But we both have the same mentality of let's get the best one. Yeah, I think it's I mean after Using it in a pretty strange way and I think it's one of the best ones Yeah, yeah, so we started looking and stuff and I think originally we were leaning towards the subgravity DPVs But one of our friends and his wife both have the C craft DPVs which are comparable In terms of pricing the C craft a little bit more expensive And after talking to him, you know, he said I think that you know for What you guys want to do the C craft would be a better fit So I wasn't even thinking about C craft at that point But then we started doing some pretty tough research about C craft and we realized that he was right Yeah in every sense of the way. Yeah, it was a better fit for us. Yeah I would add for myself speaking for myself subgravity one that we were looking at is amazing of course top notch DPV what really happened is we couldn't get it If you really that's really what the facts were we ordered it that was our first choice We didn't really know about the one we ended up getting and we heard amazing things about it But because of COVID there were so many manufacturer delays that we weren't gonna have it in time to even do Any kind of practice before going to this DPV class even just a little So we were able to ask them look it's not gonna happen in time is it okay if we switch to a different one So at least we can try it before the class right and that ended up getting us to the C craft which is also another Top notch DPV that's right and that's kind of how we ended up with the C craft. Yep The subgravities are made in Germany their top notch like everything pretty much made in Germany is Prediculously in terms of good quality and all of that But I do remember as soon as we started looking and they were comparable in like speed and thrust and all that stuff But as soon as we started looking and I told you that the subgravity reference RS which is the one we were buying Weighted 45 pounds versus the future one thousand which is the one we have the C craft the weights 35 You were like that's it because for me that does matter 10 pounds It's I mean it's a big difference when you're talking about 45 versus 35 now It may not be 10 pound differential in the water of course that chain just because of the amount of displacement That they each do they can displace off a lot of their weight That's aren't meeting is principal so right what they weigh different on land doesn't necessarily equate to how they Way differently in the water, but for me I happen to be super sensitive to weight Yeah, I mean even if it was a one pound difference in the water That would be a lot for me. So that made a difference as well Any terms of transportation too like if we ever want to take these on a big trip Like we're gonna go do charcoal a goon or something And we really want to bring this things 35 pounds is something that you could potentially find I don't know a pelican case or something that is 15 pounds that fits one of these guys and now you're within the 50 55 pound range which is the flying you know Wait, but if you're already starting up 45 and by the time you're done, it's very very heavy. So So that was another thing that was there But then you know again the C craft has longer battery and just a few advantages that we kind of decide I think you had that magnetic propulsion. Yeah, really don't hear them underwater. Yeah, it's quite an amazing piece of technology Also made in Europe they're made in Poland But yeah, they do great and it's not the top of the line. They have exploration level Dpv's these guys they have one that you have to like order and I think they have to bet you like you know that the summer Yeah, it's it's ridiculous But the cool thing about him is you know They're really heavy and they have all this battery power because you can also plug in stuff to it like you can have a lighting package The draws power from the battery you can plug in a heater like a heater vest Which a lot of people complain about because they only last like 45 minutes to an hour Well, you can plug in a heated vest into your Dpv So now we last six hours or seven or whatever. So anyway, these guys are C craft They're you know really on it when it comes to technology So we went for C craft and we had an opportunity to practice with it Before the class on many times. Well, let's even back up before that so once we did order the C craft. I think it's interesting to know your dealer Can offer to help wait them. Yes, I was blown away. I didn't know I knew really nothing about this. I have to be honest About really properly configuring a Dpv The waiting process is so precise. There's these little thin plates It's not only how many of them you put in it's where do you put them? Are they more towards the front? Are they more towards the back and you keep Putting it in a fresh water bin in this case we were gonna be waiting them for fresh water and Seeing if they float neutral Nope if it doesn't take it back out open it back up pull the top back off do I move the weight or do I add another weight? Oh, I added another way now. It's sinking. It's like a 5 to 10 time Back and forth back and forth figuring out what the right weight in is luckily We had some great help from an expert that's right The probably the leading dealer the expert at least in the Florida area for sea crap I think it's okay to say his name. Yeah, of course Ed Sorenson Yeah, and he really helped us I would I certainly would not have known how to do that and the least get them weighted properly The leash the length of the leash Where they go how they attach? Yeah, one of them is fun to me one of them is not and you know, he's he at knows everything I know and how to charge it how to store it Yeah, there's a there's a lot more than just open it out of the box and go way more that's right So once we added weighted we went to vortex springs because it's kind of near Ed and that area in Mariana, Florida where we bought him and we did some practice there But of course that is not a cave is an open sinkhole basically, so you have plenty of space It's very forgiving. Yes You know when he comes to to using the the DPV there because we were in cave certified We didn't put it in a cave. We just we were on sinkholes and stuff And I think at some point we discussed taking it to the sea But because they were already weighted for fresh water and stuff and our class was coming up We were like let's not mess with these. Yeah, let's just you know Take it easy. Yeah, and and the practice just again I said this at the beginning show at least for me I was kind of feeling like This is easy and it's just playful. Yeah, I wasn't necessarily knowing what to practice other than what speed one feel like what speed two feel like Let's let's put it to the highest speed. I wonder what reversed us which by the way my leash got immediately caught in it because I Put it in reverse and didn't know what I was doing right. I'm like, oh, okay. That's reversed. Yeah, I don't think I'm gonna use that or I'm doing that wrong I can't remember did we try to tow each other. We certainly didn't have any procedures for it Well, we told each other right time you for it, but you for yeah, yeah, but but we didn't know we were doing it I was trying to scrape you off the ceiling. I don't know if you remember I remember that I think I think I did scrape the ceiling And also I don't remember exactly oh, yeah when you told me I was using my kiss orca spirit right so I could reach Yeah, my kiss orca spirit Areas on the back to clip this scooter off on do while you towed me. Yeah, not knowing by the way even that is that what you do? Do you clip them off? It's funny because we did the toes a beautiful which is again a massive cavern And I thought it was so like I was one hand holding the other hand just waving like I was waving to all the other divers This is the easiest thing ever this weekend on the class gonna be on blast. Yeah, like this is it yeah easy stuff man Good luck with that and then they put you in a cave And now you don't have all that room that you used to have a beautiful And it's challenging so let's get in I just I just Would he made I just want to tell everybody because frankly maybe other people will Prepare themselves a bit more for sure if they're gonna go into the cave DBV class for sure unlike Unlike me like you know, yeah, I think I think that would be a good way to put it first Sure, and I think I think there's something to learn I think that you know I when I used to train to jiu jitsu we used to say you know You never win or lose you either win or you learn right and I think that this class was a good example of the great point because I learned so much about Things that I need to work on without the DBV So then I can introduce a DBV into the mix perfectly set There's a lot of multitasking so perfectly set let's talk about the class the class was three days right which for me It was like I feel like in one day we can learn everything there's to learn about it going into it You're like what's the big deal because I'm I'm a ignorant about this stuff. Yes So we had three days and I'm like including classroom. Yes, we had a classroom class from So I gotta do a lot of gas planning we don't discuss the whole classroom portion, but we're not gonna get all that away I thought the instructor throughout was very good by the way and This instructor did a very good job of the classroom portion because they make you aware of hey guys Now you're gonna be using a DPV that can take you back into a cave very fast You got enough gas to swim it out Not just yours, but what about your buddies as well? So you gotta think about oh, yeah, we've got a lot of Additional planning to do now that we're also gonna be using a DBV in a cave That's kind of the theme of the class for sure the academic portion. I kind of enjoyed that by the way I'll say the name Marisa Ecker was an instructor from hidden worlds. I kind of enjoy the fact that Marisa She's awesome. I kind of I kind of enjoy the Marisa was like we're gonna practice worst case in area like yeah Real worst case like this is never gonna happen where both your DPVs and both your rebreaters will fail At the deepest point of the cave the chances of that happening is like winning the lottery two weekends in a row But we're going to do it like the worst thing just happened absolutely that was of such the right thing to do because awesome and And I left it up to us as well like for example She said so today we're going to Bell out so you're not gonna be on the re-brew there anymore And you're going to swim your DPVs out like they stop working which is again worst case scenario Where do you want to do it from she kind of put it on us to I remember reading you sort of have a little bickering on this you remember? Yes because I was a little bit ignorant. I mean, I'm gonna defend myself here. I was like I don't know a couple thousand feedback And you're like that's a long way And I'm like what's a big deal? We're about it. See this is the ignorance No, but that but I have you are right, but you were right because I said what I said was I Am more of a realist person So I'm like the fact that both things are broken. It's already pretty unreal and on top of that They were gonna swim from the deepest penetration in the cave is triple unreal So I don't know let's do a thousand feet. That was just like a round number Yeah, that was in swim a thousand feet of swim within the cave Gives us the chance to experience how it is to swim this thing out and be on a bailout And you were like no, let's do two thousand Big shot Right mr. Big shot let's 2000, but you know on that one I don't want to speak for our instructor. Yeah, we actually did that one okay This may have been one of the only things we Okay, that was a skill that I think she would probably agree like okay, you know Yeah, you guys need to work on your trim and buoyancy more I remember her saying that but Yeah, you guys you guys did that okay, you know Well, we're gonna go into day two so I'd like to see better Rightfully in a cave already. I'd like to see better Trim and buoyancy means she was giving really good feedback for sure for sure We so anyway, we went all the way to bottle stage rock which is 800 feet inside the cave Yeah, and that's when she was like okay just turn around because that because the 2000 marketers like buried in the sand in the middle of the path The stage bottle rock is like a very well-known Like even the arrow at stage bottle rock is red instead of yellow or white like the other ones. Yeah, so it's a it's like a landmark Inside of genie springs inside of the devil's system. So anyway at that point we Go out go out and you're with the love of course. It's a spring So, you know, you have the flow helping take you out. Yeah, and they're neutral. Yep, ish I could have on mine. I felt like it was a little floaty. Yeah, and I Think I may have that evening added actually a little weight if I recall just because I felt like mine was creeping up on me so so I build out you build out DPD's off both of them off and we swim them out on the way out I started thinking about I'd remember asking Merce of this I said look if I was building out for real How would you breathe these tanks so just for those of you watching or listening to this? Yes, when we when we cave dive we dive with two extra tanks side mounted and those tanks are only used for Bell out reasons like our our re-breather stops working we bell out into these tanks They're also used for like adding air to the to the wing or you know to add air to your dry suit But that is minimal compared to the real purpose, which is your Re-breather stop working you have to bail out which means we go on a regular open circuit with tanks and we swim out Do our deco by the way I'm just remembering now that you're saying that I believe we calculated our sac rate on this particular swim out as well Correct which was also another humbling experience. That's right I remember saying before it I have a really low sac rate. You know what point one? It was not that low. It wasn't point one. It was not even close and That reminded us to Don't be shy about the amount of gas that you take back in a cave because even in a class when you're only Simulating that both DPVs broke and you got to swim them out. Yeah, you're going to breathe heavier at least I did I mean I think that's natural so I was humbled that was One of many humbling moments for me, but that was humbling. Yeah So so on the way back so I asked Marisa like how do I if I If I bail out how do I breathe these tanks down like do I do a couple breaths on each do I do how do I do it and she was like Just breathe like 500 psi at a time like 500 psi of this then 500 psi of that But on the way back I said I wonder because we're doing sac rate and stuff It will be easier to calculate with the left tank because on my left Tank I actually have a transmitter and an SPG. I have them both. Yeah, so the transmitter is connected to the pertix the pertix Obviously can tell me a sac rate to the second right I can go on a time frame and I can say starting here when I bail out to Here when I'm done with a dive. What was my sac rate? So I said I'm just gonna breathe the left tank. I'm not I'm not even gonna talk to I remember that you you did that yeah and I don't remember did you feel any kind of imbalance because of that That was another thing I wanted to test is like will I actually feel it because my low pressure 85 steel tanks that I Take in caves. They're so heavy. I mean they're huge. So I'm like Will it really make a difference right? So I wanted to do it and towards the end when I had like a thousand psi I can tell that I'm I'm tilted But anyway, I finished the whole dive on that one. I actually did alternate yeah, I did I went back and forth though And he said deep cave is that about a hundred I was trying to time it how much for me each one So I did alternate I learned some things about if you are gonna have Two regulators maybe you want both around your neck That was a really cool suggestion of smart suggestion of a recite. I think so that's one of the things I learned about as well That's true. I remember her telling me that and yeah, so that that was Interesting. Yeah, for sure. So anyway, I swam out I still had like seven or eight hundred psi on the left Tank so it was plenty just with one tank to bail out from two thousand feet Swimming at the PV out so I felt pretty confident that like if I had to bail out from three thousand even With both tanks. I would I would be I would have had a we've been added a hat of insurance and We had air on those tanks on day one later on we went and swapped the foot nitrox 32 Which would have made deco even shorter deco, but I'll tell you yeah absolutely made you appreciate having that hundred percent oxygen Not the deco stop for sure. I mean, I know that sounds ridiculous But if you're cave diving and you got to bail out You better put a hundred percent enough a hundred percent oxygen for both divers that that's right I remember that lesson also yeah for Marissa like maybe you should each be able to yeah control and carry Your own oh two bottles and control and clip them off. Yeah, we'll get to that skill that I did not do well So anyway day one ends good stuff we go fill out tanks swap to nitrox 32 The we knew we have but again, we knew we needed to improve our trimming boy and see sure it was not it was far from being It was I would say at an at an acceptable level To even at that point deserve to pass the class for a cave dive. Yeah with the DPV We were not there. It was and I was humbled by that. I was like for sure now In my case, I just want to add one more fact for me. I'm also made another mistake. I Had recently switched my sidewinder to a katana 2 and Reconfigured the whole katana 2 and I think I've been trying to think about it before that I had only used it one time That was a mistake Okay, this is not the time to go into a cave D PV class with a relatively or brand new Rebrea their configuration on top of everything else Bad mistake. I was having some other issues with my dry suit. Yeah, day one. It was leaking not flooding It did ultimately flood later in the class. We'll get to that so for me Woody dumb Right no go if you're gonna if you're gonna If you're going to use a DPV in a cave Lesson that Woody learned is be very proficient on the gear that you're gonna use already Yeah before going on a DPV in a cave that's that's a lesson to Woody and I think that's a good lesson for any class That's only you're taking a Night diving class the you don't want that first night dive You know that you're gonna do for your class to be the time you're testing your brand new light. Yes I you want to go in with stuff that you're familiar with that you have tested before But especially if you're an unobmerated environment my wrong thought on that was you know Since my goal is to be able to dive mostly on this katana 2 inside Winder might as well I might as well learn on the DPV and Practice on that and learn on that That's a mistake bad mistake. That's a mistake. I should have been proficient already on that rig without a DPV Going into the class so for sure big lesson on day one all right, so I Think that first day my favorite part was going in on the DPV first. I'm in a cave Yeah, you know for me. We went through the devil's ear Which is always a challenge for me. I'm always pulling my weight is hard This time I just put that thing on four or five and just and Marissa Marissa showed us how how to Use the DPV and tie off her reel down there. Of course she does it effortlessly and we're watching. I'm like yeah Boy, I have to do this. I was already nervous watching her like I'm not even gonna be close to doing it like her But it was so much fun finally going through that ear and you just hit the button You could even set this people you're just hovering. Yeah, like it's not put the flow's not pushing you out that was So an amazing feeling in moment and then how about when we first went into the cave with it We're out of the ear and we're just into the main part the gallery Yeah, and then we're going to the lips and keyhole Wow, well amazing in the past when I did those dives by the time I get to the lips I'm a little winded like I'm not tired Definitely, but I'm like no you feel it like this is I'm working hard to get here This time on the DPV I'm like is this I do is this a lips already like 30 seconds. I can leave it. It's amazing That what you did okay. I'm honing. Now what you just said that was amazing. I remember thinking We're at the lips Like wait a second. That's like 2015 20 minutes usually. Yeah, I'm gonna say a good 15 For sure hard and I will say 15 is if you're working pretty hard. Yeah I don't remember how long did take it like you made it. It was so fast. That was like wow That was a while. I remember that. I almost hugged my DPV like right there. I know. I know. I love you This is the best. I know. I can't wait to earn the right to be able to use it there I can't so anyway So that was that was my favorite moment of of day one so Next day we show up we do a plan based on our sac rate which we calculated the day before yeah We find out that we can safely you carry smaller tanks than me. Yeah We can safely penetrate more than 3000 feet instead of 2000 like we originally thought. Yep So we make a plan to do a dive all the way to 2900 feet and for me by the way that's the furthest I've ever been back in jiv never passed 2000 never been close to that fur back. Yep And the cave looks amazing Back man, you know, it really changes. I have to like So many 400 or whatever you remember had like more black black on the rocks I wonder if that's it's because there's not a lot of people back there. I doubt it But you think it you think that is just a geology do you really I was just wondering I wonder if it's because Not that many divers have been back in that part of the game. I know I know it's cool. It's really like I know the cave um, so anyway in the She says Marissa says okay, go so I want you to delete this one. Yeah So I was the leader on this one and you did the real work as well and I did the real work Not pretty that was I felt like Police academy of cave boy. It was better than I I don't know if you would have watched those movies, but it was it was ridiculous I never even got to that point by the way. I wasn't I never even got to the point where I was qualified to try it So she's like you do the real work So I put the dpv between my legs. I didn't realize how much I use my legs when setting up lines So I'm like squeezing the dpv between my legs and trying to just use my hands But how do you pull with your hands if you have this massive reel in your hand like it was really that's it was hard Don't you think that's where see that's where the humbling comes of man now my legs I've really got to be honest with my legs. I can't really use them effectively So I gotta be able to be neutral and in good trim. Yeah With flow and the dpv that that's not easy I mean, I'm not Even close to being able to do that. Yeah, that was tough So anyway, I set up the line and and I didn't do it right. I didn't do a good job at all You know to the point that marisa later on when it moved it like she's like that. That wasn't all the way right So anyway she went back and we did it which is great I think you may have gotten over somebody's line. You're always now all right Yeah, it's it's a lot to think about I mess it up. So anyway, I um so we go in and I start and at the Beginning it was pretty good. We went through the gallery the lips. We started driving keyhole all that stuff Navigation was good. I was really excited because I had just installed some lights on the dpv And I was leading and the lights were epic like those things are awesome I was in bat. I was second and yeah, Marissa was third So far you were second. I was okay. The funny the funny thing about the funny thing about that dive is that I don't know if it was the day before or whatever we were talking about how You never know how you're gonna react when Like an emergency happens. Yeah when you have to bail out for real like how are you gonna react and all of that Well, we were about to find out because 1400 feet into the cave right around double domes the entrance to double domes inside of jenny if anyone knows jenny or it's looking out of map I slammed my the top of my loop. I miscalculated the room that I had between myself and the ceiling of the cave and it was like a little overhang points and control problems And I thought I had clearance just like I had cleared many many other overhangs before getting to 1400 feet and I didn't so I slammed my Rebrither into the ceiling which I had done before Especially during training and stuff, but because you're pulling you don't have to speed and the strength of Going with a lot of momentum and the dpv and I pretty much tore a hole on my loop Yes, and before we get to the whole I that's gonna be an interesting moment. Yeah You said something. I don't want to pass it back because it's pretty important at least for me I learned something on this the dpv Can easily disguise that you actually have good buoyancy and trim see this is what happens You get your dry suit Set to where you think you want it while the dpv is moving and you get your wing set to where you think you want it where it's moving But the thing is that dp is moving and basically pulling you so if you're Floating up a little bit you can kind of push that dp down down a little bit and you're like I got no problem with buoyancy The dpv is keeping you at the right level because you're just moving it to where you need to be You stop that dpv or let's say it breaks or you just come to a stop You may fly right up or or down or bottom That's the riding the bicycle is it the dpv where my buoyancy is good now or is my buoyancy really suck And the dpv is disguising it because and I think that was a big Part of and a lot of my problem a lot comes with experience of course like I remember talking to Maria's about this I said now. How do you know how do you do it? Do you stop like every five minutes to check that your buoyancy is okay? You're not leveraging uh leveraging your your dpv and she said no There's some places inside the cave where you should stop and check your buoyancy like after you pass the keyhole and dip down Right when you have to make the jump into the bone line. I think that is or whatever um that area You go down check your buoyancy and then go like literally stop go to zero I would do it just a little Yeah, am I am I still all together because the dpv again if you don't it'll she knows a lot about that It'll make you feel like you are sure that was a huge learning point so Anyway, I'm on the dpv Thinking that it's going great doing a good job around 1400 feet bang slamming to the ceiling Hole in my loop and I start hearing what you don't want to hear when you're on re-breather So three of us were on re-breather's bubbles Yes, right so that's one thing that when you dive with a re-breather you don't hear anything is silent It's like kind of peak is it's like when you're on a Tesla too and you start going you can't hear anything It's just like super silent re-breather's are like that too You cannot hear anything and all of the sudden every time I breathe out I hear bubbles Like if I'm in open circuit and I'm like this is horrible like whatever's happening right now is bad And then you asked me yes Within so I was just like I'm hearing I asked me I think you waved your light. Yeah Do I have bubbles like check? I looked He had What I considered a significant amount of bubbles coming out of The worst place possible the inhale side of the re-breather Which is where you absolutely don't want them so I said yes and I Thumb the dive. Yep, which get out of here So so far I was okay. Yeah, here's where I made a mistake the absolute mistake right at this moment now We risked a water to double check. Yeah, she was like let me see what happened. Yep guys. You're right up from the dive But she agreed immediately as the instructor were out of here. Yeah, no problem I I did not bail out immediately because my re-breather fell fine Even though it was making bubbles and losing some loop volume meaning it was losing internal air I just kept adding air and I was just very very mindful of it. I kept touching my bailout regulator Okay, it's right here just constantly just being very mindful about it But again, I made a conscious decision to stay on the loop as long as possible to not start breathing our bailout gas Immediately but on the way back This is what you mentioned the mistake. Yeah, we started heading out. I liked my mistake. Yeah, I'm like I start taking the lead. Yeah My mistake Woody. I mean you're a trained cave diver right the person who has the problem should always always be in the front I don't know what hit me. Maybe that's because it was a real problem So that's what that's how quickly a mistake can happen in a cave right All of a sudden I start leading out thinking I'll lead out Forget all my cave training and he'll just follow me and that made no sense right so So goss was immediately on that like hey, hey And he actually communicated I could hear him like no, I need to lead or something like that. I'm like oh Like slap my yes. Yes. Yes. Like I hit my head like whoa what he Woody So I of course I immediately then let him lead out because he's supposed to lead out and he let out And I think it was a little faster than you would normally have gone right and that was an observation right that Says you know you really don't want to Have any kind of reaction if you don't need to he was fine. He had his bailout gas So that's what bothers me about that whole thing and constructive and proper constructive Kiss of hey let me describe what happened you described but yeah, so anyway I have this hole in the rebrier which is is the worst thing It's like having a hole on your host if you're an open circuit. It's a bad thing Um, so I start heading out again. You start heading first and I'm like I go I go I think I remember I said I go I go then I just went I went in front of you Um, but I But I as I was pushing in I was on five or six or whatever the speed was And I never like reduce it on the way out the problem with Ginny is that Ginny is a spring Which means it's pushing you out you're going against a river literally Swimming into it, but then with the river on the way back And I kept the same speech. I was just flying out right on six just going super fast on the way out because I had to What I regret what I'd regret from that was that I was impanicked And there was nothing to be afraid of like I was still in the loop. I haven't even touched My tanks yeah, you did a great job of knowing I'm okay. I mean you didn't feel enough gurgling to feel the least and how about this was the day before this We Had a broken re-breather which I didn't have When I made the hole on it We had a broken DPV quote-unquote broken DPV from 1800 this time around I had a re-breather There was still kind of working even though it was bubbling. I was still breathing out of it My DPV was working and I had two full tanks which I didn't even breathe one tank the day before what I had to swim in manually So the lessons from the day before taught me that there was no point in rushing at all Especially because I had a working DPV and I say my Working re-breather at that point. I should have slowed down tremendously And that's the lesson I learned from that real Bell-up. Yeah, so I went too fast on the way out um, you know, I think there were a couple of instances where I Kind of lost where the line was and all of the sudden I'm like wait the line is over there Okay, and then I had to like correct myself. I waved you yeah and correct We were waving from behind like for no reason there was no need for it because it was so dumb It could have stayed right on the main line, but but I think this is it's okay like it sort of shows like You say no reason but even when you feel calm you and I think you probably internally fell calm For sure that's how quickly the brain When you are dealing with even one little problem can just In a second loose track of something and get confused yeah, but those kinds of errors And that's not a good word those kind of mishaps in a cave Can be unforgiving yeah, in fact they can cost you your life. So that's right in a class And a value waiter has to take that pretty serious of course those are not things that you can overlook and Not consider Addressable for sure for sure Uh, and I'm glad she addressed it like mine. We totally did it. But yeah, that's that's a problem. Yeah. Yeah And um, so anyway uh back on the line right around I think 500 feet I start hearing gargling on my loop and I'm like I'm about to get a costly cocktail That's what I thought Um, a flooded loop is one of the two situations where we actually bail out completely out of a re-brither So I thought I had a completely flooded unit at that point So I actually bailed out so I finished my dive on open circuit um, and then which was funny is later on when I opened my re-brither I wasn't flooded It was perfectly fine. It was dry That there was a lot of water in the counter-longs, but he didn't flood completely It didn't come up through the soar and he did cause you have a caustic Correct. That's that's really doomed. Correct. It wasn't a full flood But so then so then before we came out okay You were trying to mean to try to be healthy So here's another moment of a woody Maybe the maybe the fact that there was a real problem contributed to this I was Thinking as I was passing The 02 cylinder that Gus carried in and clipped off Right on the gold line on the main line. Yeah Sure, and I picked this up I remember thinking that like you know He's got a problem Or should I just stay with them all the way up Until he gets to the deco stop At 20 feet and then he's okay and then go back down and get it I remember because I've been thinking about this over and over and I remember thinking In that five second decision I don't know I had a moment if I'm not sure you know what I'm in a class. I'm gonna pick it up. Yeah picked up the wrong one That's how quickly you could do you understand I could kill another team No, but they don't all look the same right ours had a distinguishable green valve that you put on yeah ours was clearly put on the gold line And I pick up one not on the gold line Not with a green black distinguishable black. Yeah, and it was clipped off on somebody else's line. Yeah So that thinking about it moment and then actually picking up somebody else's Who would be expecting it to be there yeah if they had a problem could kill some another team yeah, yeah for now That's not You can't not address that you can't take a light and instructor says listen. That's a major Principle of cave diving yes, I was trying to be helpful she caught you out very early. Oh, she was I said it all she wasn't confused Well, yeah, she was a medially I just want to make sure because people listening to this it's not like you took the tackle the way out What that's not ours. He's talking underwater grabbed it from me said stop Yeah, put it back then we went back up and hung out with Gus now would we have gotten the 20 foot line in would Gus have seen it and Gus say that's not ours And then I could have swam back that and then I would have put it back all that's possible. Yeah, but this shouldn't happen so another I consider my error a major error yeah at that point I really don't feel like I should I need more practice if that kind of stuff is happening those mishaps maybe I need to what I learned from that is you know what I Need to be more at more times. I need to be the guy carrying in the oh two and Setting it and paying much closer attention to where our oh two is what it looks like and Frankly, maybe having my own oh two bottle. I absolutely have learned that just like you said The what you learned on your right so you know what I learned I guarantee you the next time we put in an oh two bottle I'll have like mental freaking snapshots of it where it is like what it looked like It won't happen again, but yeah it happened anyway anyway. We came out. I don't mean to drag this forever We came out made a lot of mistakes again. It was the first time I had a real situation where I had to bail out And and we completed that so whatever we made some mistakes I I understood that the idea was to come back to next day after thinking about what we had done and me repairing my broken um, you know re-brother Come back to next day and execute the same dive again go back to 2900 So we exercise with with clear briefing We were giving clear instructions on what to do and the reason I'm saying this is because Another miss out by me is I was just at that point Fried yeah, I was fragile now here now that before you get to that next day One of the mistake of mine that I haven't said to you yet I was already leaking in that dry suit on day two a good bit more than day one So I started thinking about What should I do And I remember saying to myself you know you can live with this You can it's not that much additional water going into that dry suit And it's gonna blow the whole class. I mean would have to I don't have an alternative I don't have another dry suit. I can't repair this dry suit Within 24 hours right Gus wants to finish this class like I don't want to I don't want to be the disappointer right Be the disappointer no shame on that do not do what I did Because the second day that leak was I had like a gallon of water in each foot and it destroyed My buoyancy I could not I could not get comfortable at all yeah in Out Stopping I mean I was and I I remember say what is going on yeah, and I You can't really feel in a dry suit if you've never done it before exactly where the water is It's sort of weird. Yeah, it's hard to feel if you're wet when you're in a dry suit When I took that thing off at the end of day three I poured it upside down. I'm like gallons of water Gallant and when I stepped out and and I could feel the water around my feet But you know what I shouldn't have done day three. I shouldn't have just said look guys I can you guys continue I have a I'm leaking I'm not already feeling that comfortable in the katana One side of the canister was not Enabling me to reach by the way another woody problem I wasn't able to reach all the way back. I just wasn't comfortable in the gear. Oh That's on me you call that dive on you You I wanted to keep pushing. I didn't want to disappoint. Yeah, I didn't want to fail You didn't want to fail you didn't want to do that's wrong. That's wrong though. Yeah So That's what our dive talks about. Let's just learn from this don't you know what? There'll be another class. Yeah, there'll be more opportunity to practice There'll be another day. Yeah, and I paid the price for it because on day three I tore my loop. Yeah, I mean if it wasn't bad enough that you tore your loop on day three I'm now in the lead. I'm at a control coming out hitting the roof. Yeah hard tore my loop And on and and and I kept hearing it and well on the Deco stop I'm like what is going on so much, but I mean he's like you you're bubbling like crazy You bail out bail out and I did it. Nope. I was okay as well. I wanted to conserve my gas I'm like it's okay. I Again, I wasn't caustic. I was looking at everything. Yep. I acknowledge. I have a leak now mine happened to be on the exhale side Which is not if it's gonna be oh better it'd be better to be on that side. Yeah I wasn't hearing gurgling really actually at all. Yeah, but I mean I was bouncing all over the cave there was no trimming buoyancy control on my part on day three Right, none. I mean if I was supposed to improve on day three I got way worse. I got confused on the skills because I was so uncomfortable. I'm like wait She perfectly briefed it like the first thing we're gonna do is a broken scooter and you're gonna tow each other out I for some reason took that as a broken light not because she wasn't clear because I'm just like well I don't know I'm just yeah playing around. I so I grab a light. I'm like look at me. I got the skill right nope wrong skill So listen You're like we got to the point where you said another jump reel. Yeah but I was struggling so much at that point and I really am thankful to her She was looking at me. I think she actually felt sorry for me. She's just like look we get it's got out here This is it. It's not meant to be yeah, and I was glad I remember when I saw that thumb going Thank God thank God man. I'm not ready for this. I'm a mess. Yeah, and Time to practice. That's where we are now. She was she did a great job of Being an instructor that knew how to say We got problems stop and it's time to stop. That was awesome and and she You know she she was like here are my recommendations on things to practice without the DPV Thanks to practice with the DPV like she was very thrilled about that So anyway, we uh because your problems are related to both the katana and how that set up and the DPV which we got from Ed and I also drive suit which I'm throwing away the leaking dry suit I would know what happens to be the co-creator of the katana to us well. Yeah So we're gonna go and spend some days with Ed and just practice some more I remember when I we emailed him he's like you know I tried I wanted to describe what was going on with me and I summarized it in one word Yeah, I suck on the katana to and a DPV That's right. Well, it sounds like we have a lot of work to do. Yeah, and we will the thing about though Gus and I I like this about us Gus is remember the terminator We'll be back. Yeah, it's happening And we will have good trim and buoyancy and we will get all the skills right we will We will practice enough to where We will earn the right to cave dive with the DPV. That's right. And then I'll feel good about it Yeah, and that's what we learned. That's right and um I remember a few people you know The knew that we didn't do well on the class that it was a disaster quite frankly performance from from our perspective They were like why would you guys want to talk about this like No, you have you have a channel that talks about diving and where you guys are experts, you know Expert divers and instructors. Why would you publicly come out and acknowledge the fact that you were terrible? Yeah, it's something involving diving and I think we both agree that Because that happened Is because we need to record this thing no question. I think that look I really believe that if we both did great on that class and got our cards We wouldn't have an episode about the PV training. We would have been like yeah, we just went we got certified It was no big deal Yeah, and you know we even mistakenly may have gotten on here and and Incorrectly informed people that no yeah, if you cave diver adding the DPV is not really that difficult Shouldn't you only gonna do a couple of things, but it is a lot. I mean, it's a lot. So I mean there was a skill within get to do that I was I was like if we struggle with these ones Oh, yeah, these harder ones where we're like air sharing no lights Lot of things I'm no rock man. I mean it would have been yeah Oh, I didn't even talk about my toe at it when I was toeing you out and so much water in my feed I was basically like this Boom and I was kicking gusty was like kicking him so hard to drag in him to the roof because I could not turn the DPV back down Between the weight on my feet of my Water in my dry suit Gus's additional weight I was I'm just telling you guys that I'm not even saying all of the things that I did So then Melissa at swap us and I just feel like I had a remora like with you I was I was throwing you and I'm like oh, it's beautiful. I have a remora. You did beautiful with that perfect No, you were yeah, you were overall you were like over 300 pounds with all of my gear and that's down that stuff That should imagine it's you it's a lot to toe for sure listen I hope I I want people to learn from this episode. I gave some very important messages that I learned from I will not dive with gear that I'm not comfortable in or malfunctioned gear in a class not in a class whatever There's gonna be some mis times that are really gonna be painful to have to walk away from And you're gonna be always better off walking away from it for sure for sure Absolutely well that is Our DPV experience from a couple weeks ago. Yeah, can't wait to share that with everyone. Yeah, thank you for listening to the show I think it was a great one actually everyone can learn from this um Don't forget that this episode is also available on YouTube You can see both of our faces talk about this thing and We're giving away lights of course as part of our YouTube channel Well, depending on when they're listening to this if you're listening to this after we got 2500 subscribers We've already given away. Wow. That would happen quickly if we get that that's gonna happen quickly So um, yeah, thank you so much everyone for tuning in to another episode of dive talk If you have any questions or comments we've been getting a lot of requests for reaction videos and stuff like that Through our email info a dive talk media.com And yeah, we're always happy to answer questions and approach different you know issues and things like that that people ask us about A couple of people interested in taking classes with us As well. That was that was kind of cool. Oh cool regular open circuit, you know courses and stuff So yeah, any comments or questions anything you have just email us dive info at dive talk media.com great And we'll get back to you, but other than that Just dive safely, right safe diving. Thanks for listening