title: 879: A Christian and a Muslim Walk Into a Bar
author: This American Life
contenttype: podcast
publication: This American Life
sourceurl: https://pfx.vpixl.com/6qj4J/dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp/pdst.fm/e/prefix.up.audio/s/traffic.megaphone.fm/NPR3212702912.mp3
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Prologue: Prologue
Ira Glass
Sharief Homsi is a standup comic in a place that's not really known for its comedy scene-- Damascus, Syria. As maybe you've heard, the place was run by a dictator for a long time, Bashar al-Assad. And back then, there were a lot of jokes that Sharief was not able to tell on stage-- definitely nothing about Assad or Assad's family, nothing about politics at all. Those kind of jokes could get you killed or disappeared into one of Assad's infamous prisons. So during those years, Sharief kept jokes like that in a folder on his computer labeled "Lebanon." Because he pretty much only felt safe telling them when he would take trips abroad.
Sharief Homsi
There is one joke. Well, I love this joke. I want to bring it back. But there is one joke I used to say when I go to Lebanon. Like, listen, we have a lot of problems, but you don't have a president. And our problem is that we have one. So maybe if you take him, and you can rent him for a bit, and if you like him, you can keep him.
You cannot say anything like this, man. That joke, if I say it over here, we will get killed. There is no joke with them.
Ira Glass
Bashar al-Assad's family ruled Syria for 53 years, the last 13 of which were a brutal civil war. Over 300,000 Syrian civilians died. Then, a year ago, to everybody's surprise, a bunch of rebel groups overthrew the regime in just 12 days. Assad, his wife, Asma, and their family flew to Russia. The rebels were led by an Islamist group called Hay'at Tahrir al-Sham, HTS for short.
And then the new people in power surprised everybody again by not immediately becoming another repressive regime. HTS leader Ahmad al-Sharaa says he's acting as interim president and has promised to hold elections in the next few years. And Syrians have been experiencing a freedom that they have not experienced before. I had dinner a couple weeks ago with somebody who was just there, and they were talking about how kind of inspiring it is to be there right now. She met lots of people who were moving back, ready and excited to rebuild their country.
But at the same time, parts of Syria are still violent. There was fighting this month in and around Aleppo. Over 150,000 people were displaced. In July, Sharief had to cancel a show in a city called Suwayda because of a massacre there. 800 people were killed.
And then in October, in the middle of this chaos and hope, Sharief and the other comedians in his comedy group-- the group is called "Styria"-- decided to go on tour. They planned 16 cities in 21 days all over Syria-- in conservative regions, in liberal areas like Damascus, areas under Kurdish control, in areas that were once under ISIS control. And they really weren't sure how this was going to go. Nobody had ever done this.
And-- this is the tricky part-- under the dictator, it was clear what they could not say on stage. But now, there seemed to be no rulebook at all. If anything, the new government was saying, go ahead, you can make jokes about us. We're different from the old regime. But the comedians didn't know if they could trust that.
And then beyond that, there are lots of just very conservative, very religious people around Syria. Some of them are figures of authority in towns and provinces. The comedians wondered how they would react to things that they heard on stage. They worried about random hotheads hearing about them and things they said, deciding to show up with a gun. Even before they left, they got death threats in their DMs, stuff like--
Sharief Homsi
If you ever talk about the revolution, we're going to come kill you one by one, and we'll-- blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Ira Glass
These messages freaked Sharief out, but he got where they were coming from. The country's been through 13 years of war. He and most of the other comedians are from Damascus, a city that saw the least of the fighting because it was controlled by the regime. By Syrian standards, they're the soft liberals.
Sharief Homsi
I understand because some people, man, they see what we do as a luxury.
My house was destroyed. And my brother was dead. My mother was dead. And you hear in Damascus were having fun. You didn't have anything wrong. And you are going to make people laugh.
This is like luxury, you know? So they cannot take the joke. And I understand. They have the right to be sad.
Ira Glass
Any comedy show in Syria right now for everybody-- comedians, the audience-- they're all figuring out what's OK to say out loud. Ayman Oghanna, a reporter based in Damascus, heard about all this, and he also was very curious to see what the comedians could get away with, and whether they would even get all the way through the tour. He hung out with them on tour for two weeks on long van rides across Syria, backstage at their shows. Lots of stuff ended up happening, stuff, I think it's safe to say, they did not see coming.
Act One: Too Soon?
Ira Glass
From WBEZ Chicago, it's
This
American
Life.
I'm Ira Glass. We hit the road with these comedians today. And with that introduction, here's Ayman with Act One, an act we're calling "Too Soon?"
Ayman Oghanna
I meet up with the comedians in Safita, a city about three hours drive north of Damascus. They're in a shared apartment that doubles as a green room. The venue owner let them all crash for free. There are several mattresses to a room, suitcases under the beds, and the comics are walking in and out of rooms, getting ready and telling jokes to warm up.
Malke Mardinali
Hello.
Ayman Oghanna
Hey, Malke.
Malke Mardinali
I need to get naked.
Ayman Oghanna
No worries.
Malke Mardinali
No, no, no!
Ayman Oghanna
Malke Is Malke Mardinali, one of the founders of the group, along with Sharief.
Sharief Homsi
You can ask him anything while he's dressing.
Ayman Oghanna
OK, Malke, while you're dressing, I'm going to ask you the same question I just asked Sharief.
Malke Mardinali
Ask.
Ayman Oghanna
Is there a joke you're thinking of saying tonight that you're not sure if you want to say it, that might be a bit dangerous?
Malke Mardinali
Actually, there was a few, but a few minutes ago, we were speaking about it. Here, the audience is new to this kind of art, you know? So I don't want any joke to be uncomfortable for them, you know? So I'm going safe side this time.
I feel if I say something on the government, it would be a little bit dangerous. They will not feel comfortable. Something like this. For the sensitivity of this place, not because we can't say it, you know? But here, I don't know how they will react to it.
Ayman Oghanna
And what is the joke you're not sure about telling?
Malke Mardinali
[SIGHS] Maybe something about how the Ministry of Defense dress. They don't wear shoes. They only wear the flip-flops, you know? Fuh fuh fuh! That's how they fight. [LAUGHS] I feel something like this. It's a lot dangerous to see someone's feets in a war, you know?
Ayman Oghanna
This is actually a joke about the current government, that they were such a ragtag army that they came to power in flip-flops. Comedy and poetry are probably the hardest things to translate from any language.
Malke Mardinali
I swear to God in Arabic it's very funny. Just anyone is hearing us right now, it is funny in Arabic. You should learn Arabic, and come and watch the show.
Ayman Oghanna
Malke plays it safe that night in Safita. He skips the flip-flop joke.
Styria is a small crew, around 20 comics. Two of them are women. Some still keep their day jobs. There's a dentist, a university lecturer, an engineer, students. They are mostly in their 20s and 30s. The group's name, Styria, is a combination of "Syria" plus "hysteria," because that's what it felt like to laugh in Syria when the group got together three years ago-- a manic release.
Sharief and Malke do this full-time. Sharief is the group's spiritual leader, the one who used to have a folder labeled "Lebanon." He's got a laid-back stoner vibe, covered in tattoos, light beard, 33 years old.
Malke is the one running the tour. He's 29 years old, with dark hair and a cheeky grin. He's the Paul McCartney to Sharief's John Lennon, more tightly wound. He's the fixer, lining up venues, negotiating with government officials, driving the van, keeping track of permits, schedules, and constantly updating the list of things that could go wrong. He worries out loud, cracks jokes as he does it, a kind of nervous humor that makes it clear he's holding the whole operation together. He actually thinks they're going to be fine on this tour.
Malke Mardinali
I don't think something bad will happen to us. Because nobody cares about us, yanni. Let's state the obvious. Nobody cares about who the fuck we are. I'm not like a superstar. I'm not George Clooney on the tour. I'm Malke. He's Sharief. That's Khalid. That's Azez.
Nobody cares about us. Nothing bad will happen to us. A few people telling some jokes-- [CLICKS TONGUE] let them.
Ayman Oghanna
But there are two stops on the tour he's worried about.
Malke Mardinali
I'm most scared of Aleppo and Hama. Aleppo and Hama, those two cities are very dangerous-- very dangerous. Oof, man. Oof. So we have to be careful dealing with-- I don't know with them-- the mind. I don't know what-- it's the term. Al-Ghaam. Al-Ghaam.
Ayman Oghanna
Minefield.
Malke Mardinali
Minefield, yes, yes. So it's a minefield in Hama.
Ayman Oghanna
Hama is a conservative city, stop 7 on the tour. Aleppo is stop 9, a city divided by different factions. Before they could go on the tour, Malke had to sign what he translates as an obligation with the Ministry of Tourism, a pledge to avoid certain jokes. Unlike during the old Assad regime, they're allowed to make fun of the current leaders.
The pledge is a promise not to use hate speech and to avoid jokes that could rile people up and cause civil unrest, like jokes about religion. It's a written commitment tied to the permit. If they breach it, the Ministry of Tourism can cancel the show or penalize the group.
The first four shows go pretty smoothly, playing in mostly liberal towns where they didn't expect problems. One gets oversold because the app they use to sell tickets malfunctions, which is a huge pain in the ass. But mostly, it's sold-out rooms. So far, so good.
Stop 5 on the tour, Latakia, a sunny port city with a beachfront and blue Mediterranean waters. Fish restaurants and clubs line the shore. It's been called the Miami of Syria. And it would be, except for what happened here last March, when sectarian violence killed around 1,500 people. That's the stage the comedians are walking into tonight-- fun, but tense.
Ayman Oghanna
OK, it's Wednesday, the 15th of October. We're in Latakia. We're just arriving at the venue to see Sharief, Malke, and the guys as they set up. It's a beautiful venue overlooking the sea.
Man
[CLAPS] My friend! Hello, welcome, welcome.
Sharief Homsi
Hi, Ayman. Hi, how are you? How are you?
Ayman Oghanna
Good. What's happening?
Sharief Homsi
We're preparing for the show.
Ayman Oghanna
Sharief is unloading equipment and making sure everything is in place, working. Malke's putting up posters and banners at the entrance.
Sharief Homsi
I told you, we're the logistic. We're the reservation. We are the comedian. We are the management. We are the president of Syria.
Malke Mardinali
We are Styria.
Sharief Homsi
The same-- we are Styria. So we're preparing the show, and we just learned we might have-- we cannot do our show in Hama.
Ayman Oghanna
Hama, one of the cities Malke was worried about.
Malke Mardinali
Man, this is insane. This is insane. This is crazy. Oh! [LAUGHS]
Ayman Oghanna
You're pissed off.
Malke Mardinali
Yeah, yeah, very, very man. Very angry about it.
Ayman Oghanna
They had gotten a call from their fixer in Hama, the guy setting up their show there. He said he had gone to pay the fees for the show, but was told the local government in Hama wasn't going to allow it.
Sharief Homsi
Because we got a report that we are-- this is a new one. Prepare.
Malke Mardinali
It's fresh.
Sharief Homsi
It's a fresh-- we are supporting the gay rights in Syria or in Hama.
Ayman Oghanna
Why?
Sharief Homsi
We don't know. Like, the one who is preparing the venue in Hama, they sent him to the--
Malke Mardinali
They are assuming. We didn't say anything about this kind of topic, ever!
Sharief Homsi
Malke talked to the guy in the government. Tell him, bro, this is really offensive. If you tell me I'm threatening the people, the religion, anything, I'm talking against politics, I understand. But gay rights-- why? Like, when? [INAUDIBLE] So we don't know--
Malke Mardinali
How? Who? Too much W's.
Ayman Oghanna
The Styria comedians can talk about whatever they want in their sets. Their only rule is no hate speech. But still, nobody campaigns for any rights of any kind in their shows.
Sharief Homsi
Just imagine like you cannot think about supporting any rights, like, you see, gay rights, vegetarian rights, any rights. So the idea, we don't know, man.
Ayman Oghanna
They care about Hama because it's symbolic. A full house in a town with a conservative reputation-- a real test of what they can or can't say in the new Syria. They weren't even going to play Hama when they planned the tour. Too conservative, too many ways it could go wrong.
This is the place where, in 1982, Hafez al-Assad, Bashar's father, crushed the Muslim Brotherhood uprising. Thousands were killed. Many disappeared. People there still carry that history. It shapes what you can say in a room.
But then a fan of the group DMed Sharief, begging him to come. We like you here. We want you here. We want to change the conservative stereotype of our city. So Sharief said, OK, fuck it, let's do Hama. They figured if they could play Hama, it could open the doors to other conservative cities, too. And they sold out the Hama show, 230 tickets.
It's Wednesday. The Hama show is supposed to happen Monday. So Malke calls the guy in charge of culture in Hama, a local bureaucrat he calls the sheikh, to convince the sheikh to not cancel the show.
Malke Mardinali
I am beyond worried right now. My mind in Hama.
Ayman Oghanna
That night, they still have a show to do.
[APPLAUSE]
Sharief Homsi
[SPEAKING ARABIC]
Ayman Oghanna
It's a simple format-- six comedians, seven minutes each. The room is full, maybe 200, 300 people. Malke opens the show. He asks the audience not to take videos or photos or post on social media because they just got in trouble with the government for promoting homosexuality.
Malke Mardinali
[SPEAKING ARABIC]
[LAUGHTER]
Ayman Oghanna
Malke tells a version of the flip-flop joke, how security forces have been fighting for 14 years, but keep their toes out. It gets a big laugh. Then he hands the mic over to Sharief.
Malke Mardinali
[SPEAKING ARABIC]
[APPLAUSE, CHEERING]
Ayman Oghanna
Sharief tells a joke that definitely would have gotten him into trouble under the Assad regime. It shows you how much things have changed in Syria this last year. It's about Asma al-Assad, the dictator's wife, who had breast cancer. Technically, it's about her bra.
Here's the setup. December 8, 2024, the Assads flee for Russia. Syrians go to the abandoned presidential palace to loot it, taking little trophies, souvenirs.
Sharief Homsi
[SPEAKING ARABIC]
So in that joke, I say people went to Bashar al-Assad to steal some watches, some expensive painting. Me, I go, what I get? Asma al-Assad's bra.
[SPEAKING ARABIC]
[LAUGHS]
[LAUGHTER, APPLAUSE]
And I have it one piece.
Ayman Oghanna
He holds up half of a bra. The other half is missing.
Sharief Homsi
Because she got one breast taken because she had cancer. And people start to laugh and feel shy. And I say, hey, hey, don't feel sorry about her. She have cancer. Feel sorry for the cancer. He have Asma al-Assad.
[SPEAKING ARABIC]
[LAUGHTER]
And people are just like, ah! I love this joke.
Ayman Oghanna
Biggest laugh of the night. Afterwards, I talked to a few members of the audience.
Ayman Oghanna
How was the show tonight?
Fadi
Tremendous, extraordinary. I haven't witnessed anything the same in my life.
Merah
It was amazing. It was unbelievable. It's-- no one expected this. They say things that you cannot say, especially in Latakia. They're amazing.
Ayman Oghanna
One guy said he was depressed before the show.
Audience
But after five minutes in the show, I felt myself like flying in the night sky.
Ayman Oghanna
The only criticism I heard was that they were not political enough.
Audience
I would like to hear more about politics. Because the more you talk about politics, the more you are free. I don't think that in the coming years, they will be able to mention the same jokes. I don't believe that they are going to be free like this. I feel that Syria now is going to be like the Assad period.
Ayman Oghanna
Some Syrians have told me that they feel as though they're speaking on borrowed time. They're happy the old regime is gone, but are unsure about the future. Syrians are setting precedents for what can be said, post by post, room by room.
But maybe it's a bubble. They can joke for now, but there's real trepidation about what comes next. By the end of the night, the comedians haven't heard back from the sheikh. The fate of the Hama show is still on the line.
Ira Glass
Ayman Oghanna. Coming up, the comedians head into Hama province, the sheikh's province. And the sheikh brings all the boys to the yard-- figuratively, I mean. Stay with us.
Act Two: The Drama in Hama
Ira Glass
It's
This
American
Life.
If you've just tuned in, reporter Ayman Oghanna hit the road with a group of Syrian comedians on their first nationwide tour since the Assad regime fell a year ago. We have arrived at "Act Two, The Drama in Hama." Here's Ayman.
Ayman Oghanna
The comedians have a two-day break after Latakia, so they go back to Damascus to recuperate. They still don't know what's going to happen with their show in Hama. I meet up with them at Sharief's place in Damascus, his family's house. It's big, in a nice leafy neighborhood.
Ayman Oghanna
How are you feeling?
Sharief Homsi
Oof, tired. I need a massage, Ayman.
Ayman Oghanna
Sharief's parents are drinking tea in the living room with his aunt and uncle.
Sharief Homsi
[INAUDIBLE] This is my place. This is my room. This is my family, my uncle. This is his wife.
Ayman Oghanna
[ARABIC] Hi.
We step into Sharief's bedroom, the operating base for Styria. Malke, Sharief, and Omar, another founding comedian, have all kicked off their shoes and are drinking coffee and discussing what's to come. They are waiting for the sheikh to call with an update on Hama. Malke's phone stays face up on the table.
Psychedelic stoner posters are taped to the wall. A desktop computer obscures the window. A few childish pictures sit on the mantle. Malke points to them-- a Harry Potter poster and a painting made by a small child.
Malke Mardinali
That's from Karim al-Assad room, the sons of Bashar.
Ayman Oghanna
Oh, wow. So this is taken from the palace?
Malke Mardinali
Yes.
Sharief Homsi
Yeah. And I have a few stuff also from his house. What we get also, Malke? I get from his house, I took shitty stuff, not something with the-- it value to me more than at value in the real world, you know? Because that day was magnificent, man. Yeah, yeah.
I say this in my standup. I said, I really hope we don't have to feel this feeling again, of us getting liberated. Because in order to feel it again, another dictator would have to come.
So in that day, I felt totally free. It was total chaos, man. Like, I spent from 6 o'clock until 6:00 at the evening, I was outside in the road with my friend celebrating. We went to al-Assad home. You see, I have his bra, his painting, and stuff. We went to the parliament, to the Ministry of Defense.
Ayman Oghanna
His bra?
Sharief Homsi
His wife--
Ayman Oghanna
So that's really his wife's bra?
Sharief Homsi
Yeah.
Ayman Oghanna
You're not kidding?
Sharief Homsi
Yeah, I'm not kidding. I brought shitty stuff for me. I have-- and the half of the bra. I give it to my girlfriend, my ex-girlfriend. Because--
Ayman Oghanna
I thought you were joking. That's--
Sharief Homsi
No, no, man. It's a real shit. I turned it into a joke. Let me show you. [INAUDIBLE] Let me show you the book of my standup comedy when I was inside.
Ayman Oghanna
When Sharief says he was inside, he means prison. Sharief was jailed in Dubai for a little more than three years, from 2018 to 2021. He hands me a paperback book with a worn cover.
Sharief Homsi
So this was with me in the inside. See what I write.
Ayman Oghanna
Be
a
Great
Standup
is the name of the book. Oh, wow. It's covered in handwritten notes.
Sharief Homsi
Yeah.
Ayman Oghanna
This is your notes?
Sharief Homsi
This is my notes. This is me writing standup in the inside.
Ayman Oghanna
So you're inside your cell, just reading about comedy and writing in this book?
Sharief Homsi
Yeah. Yeah, I can show you. I can show you a book where I writed what I want to do when I'm going to go out.
Ayman Oghanna
So this is a notepad you had in prison?
Sharief Homsi
Yeah. Yeah, and you can see in English, I say a new laptop, writing, and standup comedy. And I write here some gem-- "never, never speak the plan."
Ayman Oghanna
What's "never, never speak the plan"?
Sharief Homsi
I used to talk a lot, man. This is what got me into shit.
Ayman Oghanna
This shit is a narcotics charge. Sharief was dealing drugs in Dubai and got caught by the authorities.
Sharief Homsi
I got greedy, and I got caught by a kameen, by an ambush. And they gave me marked money, and it was all a play and all a game. I was the one who burned.
Ayman Oghanna
According to court documents, Sharief sold drugs to an undercover cop. A snitch had tipped off the police. He was arrested and given a life sentence, which, in the UAE, is a common penalty for drug offenses, no matter how small. He says he got out because his father wrote a mercy petition, a letter to the prosecutor begging to let him go.
Sharief Homsi
My name was 71. It was 70 people who meant to go out, and they added my name after three years and three months. And--
Ayman Oghanna
Thank God. And then you came out, and you were like, I know what I want to do. I'm going to be a comedian.
Sharief Homsi
Actually, the first year, I was an animal.
Ayman Oghanna
What do you mean?
Sharief Homsi
You know, your basic-- I want to eat, I want to have sex, I want to hear some music. It was taken from me. And after nine months, I was going into then the same cycle that got me into jail.
Ayman Oghanna
A friend called him out for how he was acting. Sharief said enough and broke the cycle by focusing on saving money for his comedy dream, taking any job he could.
Sharief Homsi
And when that happened, everything started to happen. Like, someone asked me to do standup comedy between parties and stuff, and I was like, I want to do this.
And I thought, is it possible in all Syria, in all the dark humor and shit we have, I am the only one in Syria or Damascus that want to do standup comedy? Just let me put the news out and see who are interested. I needed a team so I can start. So we can do something.
Ayman Oghanna
That's how he met Malke. They both grew up in Damascus. Sharief is Muslim. Malke is Christian. They had mutual friends, but didn't know each other. Malke was working in a bank at the time. But they both dreamt of being standup comedians. Here's Sharief.
Sharief Homsi
Someone sent me his Facebook, and I went to research his Facebook. He had some bad content on Qmedia. Then I find him start to do standup comedy. He tried in 2020, alone.
Ayman Oghanna
How do you start to do standup comedy on your own?
Malke Mardinali
[LAUGHS] I don't know. I don't know.
Ayman Oghanna
You just got up in the bar and--
Malke Mardinali
Actually, actually, this is a very good one. I don't know if I told the guys of it. Kamal, my friend, we were having a drink in Mad Monkey Pub. So we were talking, and I don't know. I'm just saying stories and something like this. He started to laugh very hard. So he called Bisan, the owner of that place, and told her that I should start doing standup comedy at her venue. She refused, of course. And--
Ayman Oghanna
But then, a week or so later, the owner of the bar changed her mind. Malke's friend called and told him.
Ayman Oghanna
And that was just because you're a funny guy, and people thought--
Malke Mardinali
That's it. I don't know shit about standup at that time. Like, I'm coming from NGOs and bank background, you know?
Ayman Oghanna
So you worked in a bank, but you told jokes to your friends, and your friends were like--
Malke Mardinali
Yes, yes, yes, yes. Most of my jokes come from that. I'm a good roaster at-- [CHUCKLES] I was at the bank, so--
Ayman Oghanna
And how did it go at Mad Monkey, your first gig?
Malke Mardinali
Shit. Shit, shit, man. Pure shit. It's the purest shit you've ever seen in your life.
Ayman Oghanna
Did people laugh?
Malke Mardinali
The people were sick, [LAUGHS] not laugh. They told Bisan, come on, turn on the music on now. [LAUGHS]
Ayman Oghanna
Malke had decided to quit the bank, tired of counting other people's money. And out of the blue, Sharief called him to invite him to a standup workshop he was hosting.
Malke Mardinali
At the same day, man, at the same day, 2:00 PM, I signed that paper. 4:00 PM, Sharief called me, at the same day.
Sharief Homsi
And I remember when I called, he said I cannot come at this time.
Malke Mardinali
This is the sheikh.
Ayman Oghanna
Oh, the sheikh is calling Malke now.
Malke Mardinali
Hello? [SPEAKING ARABIC]
Ayman Oghanna
Malke answers the phone. Sharief paces the room, smoking and listening carefully. The call lasts about 15 minutes.
Malke Mardinali
Alla rasi Sukran ilak, shukran. Alla rasi, shukran.
[LINE BEEPING]
Oh, my God. [LAUGHS]
Ayman Oghanna
So what just happened, Malke?
Malke Mardinali
Oh, my god. Man, this is insane. 15 minutes on the phone just to talk-- just to say that you are not allowed to do your standup in Hama, OK? After this call, he will reconsider the things.
Ayman Oghanna
What the sheikh said in the call was that he didn't know who canceled the show, but he understood why someone would cancel it. He'd actually seen their set in Muhardah a few months back, and he thought some of the content was inappropriate. And certainly, it would be for Hama, but not because of anything to do with LGBTQ material.
Ayman Oghanna
So what were the kind of things he was saying to you?
Malke Mardinali
[LAUGHS] Man, this is insane. He told me that you can't say your material in Hama because it's offensive to the family values. Because we are talking about our parents.
So he felt that, oh, they are breaking the bonds between the families. They are affecting the people that will watch these kind of shows, that we are a threat. That's how we-- we are a threat to the family, you know? We are a threat to the family values.
This is much more insane than the LGBTQ support thing, man. This is really new, man. This is really new. All of us have jokes on our parents, man. Everybody! This is insane.
It's my dad, man. It's my dad. If I can't speak on my dad, what else should I speak of? For what should I speak? This is my family. This is my culture.
This is we are doing standup comedy for the sheikh, not for the people, you know? This is how things are now going. The first three months, we had freedom.
Ayman Oghanna
Yeah. What was that like?
Malke Mardinali
It was amazing. It's like coming from dark to the light. Then we are slowly closing the window, now slowly closing the door, slowly closing the curtains. This is bad. This is bad.
Sharief Homsi
It's like, it's better if I never had it.
Malke Mardinali
Yes.
Ayman Oghanna
Wow.
Malke Mardinali
You know?
Ayman Oghanna
Wow.
Malke Mardinali
Oh, shit. Here we go again, you know? Oh, shit. Here we go, another Assad regime.
Ayman Oghanna
On the call, Malke told the sheikh they wanted to perform in Hama to show that Hama isn't just some strict and conservative city where nothing happens. The sheikh said he'd look into it and get back to them with a final answer soon.
Ayman Oghanna
So he's going to call back in a few hours with his decision?
Malke Mardinali
I think he will call the brothers.
Ayman Oghanna
The brothers is Malke's sardonic way of referring to the Islamist officials now running things.
Malke Mardinali
They will call the brotherhood. He will call them and will have their advice.
Ayman Oghanna
The next day, we hit the road again.
Malke Mardinali
[SPEAKING ARABIC]
Ayman Oghanna
--piling into a bright yellow van with stickers lining the sides saying "Styria" in the font of
Grand
Theft
Auto.
Malke is driving. Sharief sits behind him. There's so much equipment in the back that Malke can't see out the rear window. It's about three hours to Salamiyeh, stop 6 on the tour, depending on checkpoints.
Ayman Oghanna
What's the latest with the sheikh?
Malke Mardinali
Sharief send me a screenshot that he is pushing also in Muhardah.
Ayman Oghanna
To stop you?
Malke Mardinali
Yes.
Ayman Oghanna
Muhardah is the show tomorrow night. The sheikh is now saying that show might be canceled as well.
Malke Mardinali
I think a few hours, I'm going to make some phone calls to understand what the hell is going on.
Ayman Oghanna
And what's your strategy with the sheikh? How are you going to convince him or control him or influence him?
Sharief Homsi
He's going to turn to Islam. [LAUGHS]
Ayman Oghanna
You're going to convert to Islam?
Malke Mardinali
I hope I don't have to. Because if the sheikh didn't kill me, my parents will. So I'm dead either here or there.
Sharief Homsi
[SPEAKING ARABIC] I told him we will not stop. So if they want to stop, let them stop us khalas. If it's going to go to jail, please take me to jail. I miss it.
[LAUGHTER]
Ayman Oghanna
And with all this drama, do you want to perform in Hama?
Malke Mardinali
Yes. Our show is sold out in Hama. Man, there is 200 people right now. The only entertainment they have here is us so far, besides killing each other, you know? So we are a must, not a need.
Ayman Oghanna
A few minutes later, still on the road to Salamiyeh, Malke gets a text.
Malke Mardinali
The sheikh just texted me that not going to be a show in Hama. This is final decision.
Ayman Oghanna
So what are you going to do?
Malke Mardinali
We're going to tell the people in Hama to come to our show in Muhardah.
Ayman Oghanna
Are you going to tell them why?
Malke Mardinali
Yes, of course I'm going to tell them why.
Ayman Oghanna
For them, this isn't over. They could let it go, but Malke won't. They decide to test the limits another way-- make it public, and see who's stronger right now, the government or the people. They want to use public opinion to force them to reinstate the show.
The Styria comedians are all pretty young. They think in TikTok and Instagram. They believe a big enough online following will give them protection from government officials trying to silence them. They have hundreds of thousands of followers on Instagram.
Syria's revolutionaries also used social media to rise to power. But now that they run things, they fear it, fear posts that inflame sectarian tempers, fear looking weak. At the same time, they don't want to look like the old regime, repressive and censoring in public. So they pressure quietly, in private, and the comedians answer loudly online.
Malke and Sharief go on the offensive. They post that the Hama show is canceled, and tell Hama fans to come to Muhardah instead. They'll add seats. They'll arrange buses. They're trying to turn the followers into force.
It's a respectful post, not calling anyone out. But they figure their fans will understand why it was canceled, get pissed off, and put pressure on the government. But then one of the other comedians, Abo Azez, goes rogue on his personal Instagram account.
Malke Mardinali
So Azez, you know him. Azez is much--
Sharief Homsi
Crazy, man.
Malke Mardinali
--crazy. He's not diplomatic, you know? He's not diplomatic. He--
Sharief Homsi
He's so funny. He's funny. [LAUGHS]
Malke Mardinali
Very stupid and very--
Sharief Homsi
Very Abo Azez.
Malke Mardinali
--very Abo Azez, you know?
Ayman Oghanna
On Instagram, Abo Azez goes off.
Abo Azez
[SPEAKING ARABIC]
Ayman Oghanna
He rants about the secretariat for Political Affairs in Hama, says they accused the troupe of LGBTQ content and of being a threat to family values. He blames them for canceling Hama. We're back to how we were before, he says, which sounds pretty mild, but he's comparing the new government to the old regime, which is dangerous.
Abo Azez
[SPEAKING ARABIC]
Ayman Oghanna
Abo Azez has nearly 300,000 followers. Him posting online left some in the group nervous, but excited Malke and Sharief. The comments start right away, angry at the government.
Word gets back. Someone from Political Affairs calls Abo Azez. Political Affairs also contacts the sheikh. The sheikh calls Malke. Malke doesn't pick up, so the sheikh follows with a text.
Malke Mardinali
I didn't answer. I will let him, khalas. We have canceled this show. Then when--
Sharief Homsi
Within an hour, answer him.
Malke Mardinali
I think--
Sharief Homsi
In an hour, answer him.
Malke Mardinali
I think I will tell-- no, leave him in half an hour. Let things boil up, you know? So I leave him now. I think an hour later or maybe in the evening, they will tell us, do your show in Hama.
Ayman Oghanna
Some members of the group are worried by the strategy, wishing they had been consulted first. But almost as quickly as they stir up the online shitstorm, Sharief gets a text from the Hama venue owner.
No matter what, he won't let them use the venue. It's not worth it to him. He's scared of a visit from the authorities-- a fine, a lost license, a knock on the door, or worse, an attack.
Malke and Sharief have officially lost the battle for Hama. They're still trying to direct people to come to the Muhardah show instead, but now that might be canceled as well. They play Salamiyeh that night.
Malke Mardinali
[SPEAKING ARABIC] Wow.
[APPLAUSE, CHEERING]
Hey.
Ayman Oghanna
It goes great-- standing ovation.
Malke Mardinali
[SPEAKING ARABIC]
[CHEERING, APPLAUSE]
Ayman Oghanna
Then, after the show, a call from the Ministry of Media. This guy is furious about Abo Azez's post and tries to stop the show they've just finished.
Ayman Oghanna
Are you worried they're going to stop your other shows?
Malke Mardinali
Now, tomorrow, it's going to be Muhardah. No, they are not going to come to Muhardah. Maybe they will do some phone calls, and that's it. It's now our move. On the chessboard, it's now our move. We have the media. We have the people. They have weapons.
Ayman Oghanna
Yes. So Abo Azez is a very powerful chess piece.
Malke Mardinali
Yeah. No, he's very Tahish, we call it, that the one who-- like a tank, you know? This is the first who come into the battle.
Ayman Oghanna
Oh, OK.
Malke Mardinali
And then people come, like snipers and military. And everything is a war. Yeah, in Syria, everything is a war. Even the art is a war, yanni.
Ayman Oghanna
Malke isn't worried about the show in Muhardah. He tells me it's a Christian town, so the sheikh has no power there.
Ira Glass
Ayman Oghanna. Coming up, "Muhardah, She Wrote." The comedy show moves on to Muhardah. That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio when our program continues.
Act Three: Is This Thing On?
Ira Glass
It's
This
American
Life.
I'm Ira Glass. Today's show, a Christian and a Muslim walk into a bar. We pick up with reporter Ayman Oghanna and the comedians of Styria on their tour of the country for Act Three, an act we're calling, "Is This Thing On?"
[ARABIC CHATTER]
Ayman Oghanna
It's morning. We're back in the van, heading from Salamiyeh to Muhardah, a show they hope will still happen and where a busload of fans from Hama will join them. We pass a car with a rocket launcher on the roof.
Ayman Oghanna
This is--
Sharief Homsi
A rocket launcher, man, on a Humvee. [LAUGHS]
Ira Glass
Monuments of Syria's bloody war still dot the roads. We see bombed-out buildings and burnt-out cars on the way. We have a system for checkpoints. Malke flashes a big smile, and I hide my recording equipment under a coat.
Malke Mardinali
Checkpoint for--
Ayman Oghanna
OK, checkpoint. I need to take my headphones off.
Malke is flying high this morning. We're leaving the more conservative Sunni Muslim areas and heading to a Christian town. Christians are a minority in Syria, about 10% before the war. And Malke is Christian. He's relaxed, in shorts, grinning as he drives.
Ayman Oghanna
So this is Muhardah?
Malke Mardinali
Yes, this is Muhardah. Welcome to the Christian people! Fuck you, Sharief!
Sharief Homsi
I'm with you. [SPEAKING ARABIC]
Malke Mardinali
Woo! Hallelujah! Hallelujah. Now we are safe. Now we are safe from HTS--
Ayman Oghanna
Why?
Malke Mardinali
--and all the governments. This is a Christian country. Here, this is a Christian land. No Muslim is allowed to go here. Ayman, are you Christian?
Ayman Oghanna
I am.
Malke Mardinali
Yes. Welcome home.
Ayman Oghanna
We get into town, go into a cafe.
Ayman Oghanna
Malke.
Malke Mardinali
Yeah.
Ayman Oghanna
Have you heard from anyone who's from Hama who's taking the bus tonight?
Malke Mardinali
I don't know, but I think there is 40, 50 people, something like this. I feel that when the evening come, it will be 60 or I think 60, 70, something like this. I hope it's going to be good.
This is where we drink a lot. This is the place. They are very, very, very generous, very generous here. Because they are Christian.
Ayman Oghanna
Everyone is happy, smiling. They order pizza.
Malke Mardinali
(SINGING) I go back to us
[BACKGROUND CHATTER]
[SPEAKING ARABIC] I love this song.
Ayman Oghanna
But an hour later, the mood changes. Malke looks distressed. He has changed back into jeans, as conservative Syrians frown upon men wearing shorts. We get back into the car with the venue owner for the show tonight.
Ayman Oghanna
Hey, Malke, tell me exactly what's happening.
Malke Mardinali
Oh, a lot happening. A lot. Let me think about it first. Then I will talk to you just to--
Ayman Oghanna
The venue owner has gotten a call from the local government in Muhardah asking him to come in for a meeting. We drive to the local municipal building. I walk with Malke, but get stopped at the stairwell, while Malke and the venue owner go into an office. A few minutes later, Malke comes back and says I can come in.
Malke Mardinali
[SPEAKING ARABIC] Plus this, give it to the boys outside.
Ayman Oghanna
Give what? The recorder?
Malke Mardinali
Yes, the recording and the headset.
Ayman Oghanna
OK, sure. I can listen--
Malke Mardinali
And your bag also.
Ayman Oghanna
OK.
They take my bag, the recorder, everyone's phones. There are two government men inside the office-- beards, shaved mustaches, military outfits. They look straight out of central casting.
But they're polite. One asks if we want coffee. Another then brings glass cups of Nescafe 3-in-1, a sugary instant coffee ubiquitous across the Middle East.
My translator waits downstairs, so I don't follow everything. But one of the government guys says he recognizes me. I'd covered the Syrian war, and we had been in the same towns in Idlib province. Malke later jokes that 10 years ago, they may have kidnapped me. It's a different country to report in now.
I watch the room. The older one sits behind a desk, does most of the talking. Eventually, another brings in a piece of paper and beckons the venue owner to come to him. The owner is nervous and doesn't hesitate to sign it. Malke explained to me what was going on afterwards.
Malke Mardinali
They were very angry. So they told us that we can't do our show in Muhardah because there is no permission from Hama Political Affairs. So now, we are making some phone calls to have that permission. I hope to have it, yanni.
Ayman Oghanna
Malke had miscalculated. He figured that because Muhardah is a Christian town, the sheikh and the local Hama government wouldn't have reach here. But instead, the local politicians in Muhardah are telling them, if they want to do tonight's show in Muhardah, they need to get permission from the sheikh and the other bureaucrats in Hama, the ones they started a battle with yesterday, the ones now threatening a libel case.
Ayman Oghanna
What was it they made the owner sign?
Malke Mardinali
Obligation.
Ayman Oghanna
Saying? He promises--
Malke Mardinali
Saying that he promises that he won't let us do the show without written permission from their office.
Ayman Oghanna
Has this ever happened before to you?
Malke Mardinali
No. No.
Ayman Oghanna
When you arrived in Muhardah, you were like, we're free now and no one can stop us. So how do you feel now?
Malke Mardinali
Shit. Shit. Shit. They have more power than I thought here. This is dangerous.
Yesterday, they were very upset with us doing the show in Salamiyeh. So now, they will prevent us from doing the show here. I don't know what things will happen the next few hours.
Ayman Oghanna
Their only path tonight is persistence. If they can get permission from the Hama officials Abo Azez just insulted, they can still go on in Muhardah. It's 3:15 PM. The show is at 7:00. It's sold out. Buses of fans are supposed to come from Hama.
We get in the car-- me, Malke, and the venue owner-- and head towards Hama to try to talk to the politicians and see if there's any way to save tonight's show in Muhardah. 10 minutes out, the venue owner answers his phone. I can't tell what the call is about, but he goes quiet, then asks us to turn back. We head back to Muhardah, to the same cafe. Malke smokes a cigarette on the street outside, defeated.
Ayman Oghanna
Why did we turn back from Hama?
Malke Mardinali
Because they started to hurt him now. They started to hurt him. I'm sorry, man, I have to stop this because I'm very tired now.
Ayman Oghanna
Malke later told me that the venue owner got a call from his dad. The government is also putting pressure on him, real enough pressure that he got scared and didn't want to cause more trouble by heading to Hama.
To make matters worse, on the way back, Malke also gets a call. First, they've been told they needed permission from the Political Affairs Office in Hama to run the Muhardah show. Now, the bar moves even farther away from them. Officials are now saying they need three permissions-- from Political Affairs and also from the Ministries of Tourism and Culture. And the guy running the local office of the Ministry of Culture is the sheikh.
Ayman Oghanna
All because of what? What have you guys said or done?
Malke Mardinali
This is because of jokes. Yes, this is because of jokes. I can't think of a place shittier than here, you know? I hate this country. I swear to God, I hate it from the bottom of my heart. This is a message that you don't play with us.
Ayman Oghanna
They think you're troublemakers.
Malke Mardinali
Yes, yes. For them. This is insane. This is insane.
I'm tired now, mentally and physically tired. I'm using all my connections. And when I do, when I put 9 on the table, they put 10. I put 10, a guy, they put a queen. I put a king, they put an ace. So it's always fuck.
We're going to wait one more hour, and then we will know what to do. We need an hour, I think. [EXHALES]
Man, I don't know what to do. I don't want it to be a fight. I want to be in agreement.
Ayman Oghanna
Well, you want to be a comedian, and you can't do that.
Malke Mardinali
[LAUGHS] This is the last thing I think of right now, actually. I swear to God, this is the last thing I think of.
Ayman Oghanna
Malke hasn't eaten since yesterday. He's running on coffee and cigarettes. He's getting impatient with my questions. He and the other comedians start talking in Arabic around a crowded table. The conversation is heated.
[ARGUING IN ARABIC]
I find Sharief outside the cafe, emotional.
Ayman Oghanna
OK, man, I can see you have tears in your eyes. You're upset.
Sharief Homsi
Walla bro, I feel sad, you know? I'm sad because the people who got influence now, they're using Bashar ways and Bashar law to stop us from making people have some fun.
Ayman Oghanna
Yeah, how is freedom of expression working out for you in Syria now?
Sharief Homsi
It's not working at all. It's not working. And the thing are working is not freedom, are who have the bigger balls.
Ayman Oghanna
And how are the other guys taking the news?
Sharief Homsi
Some of them are scared. Some of them-- Qassim imagine he's scared. He's a doctor in the university. He's scared that might reach him in a way that they will let him go from the university.
Other want to make money. Other want to make fame. Other want to make the project continue. It's their own right to feel and do whatever they want. But for me, I push by myself. Yeah. So let's see.
Ayman Oghanna
But soon after this conversation, they call it. Malke can't secure the three permissions in time, so they're forced to cancel just three hours before showtime. They post on Styria's Instagram that the show's off due to unforeseen circumstances and tell people they'll refund tickets. Now they're worried the government is also going to cancel their show in Aleppo, which is two days away.
I find them hours later in Sharief's hotel room. One of the other comedians is giving Sharief a massage.
Ayman Oghanna
So I see you guys are promoting LGBTQ.
[LAUGHTER]
That night, instead of doing their show, they get drunk and dance until 3:00 in the morning.
The next day, the politicians in Hama want Abo Azez to bend the knee, apologize. Malke says he won't make Abo Azez do that alone. We get in the car to Hama to meet Abo Azez, who's already driven up from Damascus. Malke is anxious and frustrated.
Malke Mardinali
I didn't sleep well, actually.
Ayman Oghanna
So what are you hoping? You're going to see these guys, and what?
Malke Mardinali
To end this madness, man. To end this madness. I think we've been in this case three days now.
Ayman Oghanna
Yeah.
Malke Mardinali
The fuck is this, man? Three days? Three days for a fucking comedy show?
They are wrong, OK? They are the political affair. They are wrong. But we didn't play well. When we play, we gave them our neck.
Ayman Oghanna
We get to the Political Affairs Office and inside a large, drab, concrete government building. At the door, the security guard says they're expecting us, and Malke tightens.
Up a dim stairwell to a large office, three suited officials sit in a row like judges facing out. One of them is the infamous sheikh. We're shown to chairs by their side. Abo Azez is already there. Malke tells me to put my recorder outside again.
Malke Mardinali
Please, we're going to take this outside. Then we're going to talk.
Ayman Oghanna
All right.
The meeting begins. It's all in Arabic, but my translator is there and takes notes.
The government officials are stern and condescending. Their age and authority looms over Abo Azez and Malke. They have the room.
The men from Political Affairs tell the comedians they were insulted by Abo Azez's post, that it's unacceptable to compare them to the Assad regime. They ask Abo Azez how many people saw his post. He says 47,000 and apologizes, says what he did was wrong.
The officials say that in addition to the post being inappropriate, it wasn't true. They never canceled the show. Malke pushes back. That's what his fixer was told when he had gone to pay the fees for the show.
Whatever the truth of that, the three officials do have a lot to say about the content of the shows. One of them says that he went to one of their shows a few months back, that he sat in the front row with his son. He says, I regretted bringing him, but what calmed me was that he fell asleep during the show. From the start, all your jokes were about religion, sex, and sensitive topics that threaten civil peace.
They remind the comedians that under Assad, they could joke about anything but politics. Now, they can joke as much as they want about politics or the government, but they can't joke about topics that could disturb the civil peace. They point to a little dance Abo Azez does at the start of his set. They say it's sexual. They say society's morals have deteriorated.
Abo Azez apologizes a second time. He tries to break the tension with a joke. He says, there are three things I love-- Ahmad al-Sharaa, Bashar al-Assad, and sport. But the truth is, I only like two of them. You can choose whichever you like. It's a joke because Abo Azez is overweight, not a big athlete, and it's impossible to both love Sharaa and Assad.
Silence. No smiles, no laughs. It's awkward. The message is clear-- this is not a joke. The meeting wraps up after an hour. Afterwards, I ask Abo Azez about it.
Ayman Oghanna
Do you regret the post now?
Abo Azez
Yes, I regret my reaction and putting the story. Because if I do that and comparing them to the old regime, if I do that with the old regime, I will be killed or forcefully disappeared. But the new government have at least sat with me, discussed the issue with me, and they let me leave.
Ayman Oghanna
It says a lot about where Syria is now. Not the old terror, not real freedom either. The state will absolve you if you apologize, rather than make you disappear into the prison system.
You can post. You can film. You can even argue in a room like that. But you have to bow down to authority, which, after 50 years of dictatorship, Syrians know how to do.
Ayman Oghanna
It seems to me like in Syria today, everyone has tasted freedom for the first time, and they're not sure what to do with it. Even the government don't even know what to do with freedom.
Malke Mardinali
Yes. [CHUCKLES] Of course. You have said it, yanni khalas. We are learning, and they are learning.
Ayman Oghanna
I spoke to the sheikh afterwards. He reiterated that he didn't cancel the show. He said his remit is cultural centers only, and the comedians are banned from the cultural centers in Hama. But anything in a private venue, he said, is outside his authority. He never told anyone to stop anything.
Malke Mardinali
He is lying, man.
Ayman Oghanna
I told Malke about the conversation.
Ayman Oghanna
He said it was a misunderstanding. He--
Malke Mardinali
No. That's what they say after-- when feel the heat, you know? "I'm sorry. It's a misunderstanding." Fuck you, and fuck your misunderstanding.
Understand well, because you are in a position you have to understand well. Any misunderstanding can lead to blood. You have to be aware of what kind of business you do.
Ayman Oghanna
I also learned the sheikh is not actually a sheikh.
Ayman Oghanna
Do you call all the politicians sheikh?
Malke Mardinali
Not all. Only the Muslim one.
Ayman Oghanna
We tried to figure out who canceled the show in Hama and didn't get anywhere either.
Malke Mardinali
[SPEAKING ARABIC]
Ayman Oghanna
The next two shows are in Aleppo. And even though Malke was worried about Aleppo from the start, the shows there are not canceled. They sell out both shows, 1,000 tickets in total.
Malke Mardinali
[SPEAKING ARABIC]
[LAUGHTER]
Ayman Oghanna
Malke does the joke about his dad and one about being a Christian in a mosque. Sharief tells the bra joke.
Sharief Homsi
[SPEAKING ARABIC]
[LAUGHTER, APPLAUSE]
[SPEAKING ARABIC]
Ayman Oghanna
See? Malke was right. They kill in Arabic.
Ira Glass
Ayman Oghanna is a reporter in Damascus.
Credits
Ira Glass
Well, our program was produced today by Dana Chivvis and edited by Phia Bennin and David Kestenbaum with fact-checking by Hany Hawasly. The people who put together today's show include Michael Comite, Suzanne Gaber, Tobin Low, Katherine Rae Mondo, Stowe Nelson, Ruthie Pettito, Nadia Reiman, Ryan Rumery, Frances Swanson, Christopher Swetala, Julie Whitaker, and Diane Wu. Our managing editor is Sarah Abdurrahman. Our executive editor is Emanuele Berry.
Aref Al Kerz worked with Ayman in Syria. Jude Taha did translations.
Our website, thisamericanlife.org.
This
American
Life
is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange. Thanks, as always, to program's co-founder, Mr. Torey Malatia. When people walk up to him on the street, before they barely get a word out, he lets them know--
Malke Mardinali
I'm not George Clooney.
Ira Glass
I'm Ira Glass. Back next week with more stories of
This
American
Life.