title: Burn the Spreadsheets: Leveraging Digital Infrastructure to Unlock The Clean Energy Transition
author: On The Grid
contenttype: podcast
publication: On The Grid
published: 2025-07-18T17:17:46+00:00
sourceurl: https://feeds.soundcloud.com/stream/2132485263-zpryme-agency-burn-the-spreadsheets-leveraging-digital-infrastructure-to-unlock-the-clean-energy-transition.mp3
word_count: 4269
Hello everyone, this is Jason Rodriguez, CEO and co-founder of Z Prime. Thank you for joining us for another excellent episode of Z Prime on the Grid. Today I have the pleasure of being joined by Patrick Davis, he's a chief commercial officer with clear trace, Patrick, welcome, how are you doing this morning? And many thanks Jason, doing great here, how are you doing? Doing just fine, I'm dialing in from just south of Austin and beautiful Kyle Texas, and where are you joining us from today Patrick? I'm joining you from just north of you Jason, up in Austin, so straight shot, I-35. Oh yes, yes, we're all familiar with that beautiful I-35. Right. Probably in the morning, I'm sure you have plenty of stories there of driving up and down, that beautifully designed highway there for sure. So Patrick, just for our audience out here, can you maybe tell us just a little bit about clear trace and your role there? Yeah, definitely, I appreciate you asking Jason. So in clear trace, we set out to help solve some of the challenges associated with accounting for clean energy, and originally our, the original application of clear trace was this kind of blockchain application where we were taking granular energy and carbon data and pairing it together so that we could do different things for different customers. And so one of the early adaptations of that was a 24-7 CFE tracking product for some of the early adopters, Google was one of the most famous, you know, I should follow shortly there after by our mountain data centers. And over time, what we realized is that as we look at the grid on an hourly basis, there's all these different needs, you look at the energy supply chain, and more specifically, utilities in particular tend to need to be able to support the kind of emerging market and different customer needs along the way. So what we've been able to do is build out solutions to help these utilities, break down information silos and data barriers, and combine new sets of information together to create insights and to ultimately create better products for their customers. Thank you. Thank you for certainly working on one of the hottest issues in the clean tech and utility space now, Patrick, but want to dial it back a little bit and maybe just learn a little bit about your background. Where'd you grew up at originally from Austin, and then maybe tell us a little bit about your career journey into coming into the clean tech space. Yeah, I'm a bit of a mutt in the sense that I bounced around as a kid, mostly Midwestern base of born in Chicago, bounced around Minneapolis area, went to college in Wisconsin. It was fortunate to live in Austin for a few years as a kid, and ultimately came back after doing a year of teaching English in Korea. And so my professional career here in Austin has largely been spent working for companies in the digital transformation arena. So the early days of marketing automation when we were, you know, pairing email with web analytics and, you know, soon to be social data. And then that kind of morphed into the explosion of social data when phones became a thing. And there was this proliferation of devices and new data sets. And most recently I came from a knowledge management company that was specialized in helping companies with large sets of data, take that information, take that data, put it into context to drive different insights to drive revenue for their business or make informed decisions. And it was a very analogous kind of transition into the clean tech world where you look at the utility industry in particular. And they are, we're writing the way of digital transformation and the whole energy transition that we're going through right now. Many of the things that have happened in other industries are just now happening in the energy world. So I feel very fortunate to be in the space in an exciting time. That is a fantastic journey there and to mesh all those experiences and bring them into this space that's probably speaks a lot to some of the great things you guys are doing at clear trace, but also of the success you've had just to bring all those life, learn experiences into the space and then the parallels. I hear lots of talk lately that utility electric and water companies, maybe not water utilities yet, but electric utilities see themselves more and more so as technology companies that is enabling technology to get to the customer. And it's just a fascinating thing when you think of how many new experiences and roles and degree types that have come into our industry and it kind of leads us to these innovative things that are happening to push our industry at a time where where we need to address the climate impacts, where we need to be much more engaged with those stakeholders and customers so let's just dive into some of these conversations that we're seeing here. So let me start off with the big one first Patrick. You guys talk to you a lot of different stakeholders, a lot of different customers and companies, but I want to see what from your perspective here in 2025, what are the major drivers of change that you're seeing within this clean tech utility landscape? Yes, so certainly when you think about the corporate customer, the CNI customer, there's a range of different needs, there's a range of sophistication. So on one end of that spectrum, you've got the very advanced hyper scalers, the big tech companies, Google's, Microsoft's, Amazon's that are out there with these very, very forward goals where they're putting lots and lots of resources towards transformation of the grid and the energy that they're buying, and then on the other end of the spectrum, you've got companies that are maybe still trying to figure out how they're going to weave sustainability into their business. And so all that's to say, most companies figure out that energy is a critical component of their of their carbon accounting. And so no matter where a customer falls on that spectrum, they know that the power that they're getting is critical to helping them change. And so what we're seeing is that this newfound pressure on utilities in addition to the load growth and unprecedented power expectations that everybody's been talking about lately. There's now this kind of third dimension, which is I don't just need power at a reasonable price and reliable power, but I also needed to be carbon free. And so these days, it's the clean energy resources that are the cheaper resources. It's been a lot of headlines about price of natural gas and the time it takes to get a peak or plan up and running. The fact of the matter is that customers want clean cheap power. And so from a voluntary perspective, we still see a great push on that front. And then depending on where in the in the US, you're talking about, certainly there are regulatory pressures, different regions of the country. The regulatory pressures are slow moving boat, but you kind of look at each of the each of the different parts of the United States. And there's different pressure points when you combine that regulatory pressure with the voluntary push. It's really a big catalyst for change. Several things enforce multipliers in there. From the regulators you mentioned, the customers and how you infuse this with new technology. So maybe talk a little bit about how cleartrace is specifically, maybe some of these solutions you guys are offering out in the market are helping hone in on one or two of those layers. Yeah, so what we've found as we've, you know, canvas the market and talked with everybody out there is that one of the challenges that everybody's facing right now is they're living in a world of spreadsheets. And so many of our utility customers and the folks that we talk to have different parts of their business that have built these overly complex spreadsheet based systems. And I use air quotes when I say that. And so these departments are not talking to each other. So as an example, a clean energy team that's developing programs for customers and interfacing with customer teams and key accounts teams, there's not really a shared space. Okay. And so that same clean energy team that's dealing with the racks and EICs associated with programs also doesn't have a shared space to work with their trading team of the utility. So as a result, there's a lot of bespoke processes and a lot of inefficiency. And how does that ultimately manifest to the customer? Well, it's a terrible experience for the customer. And so there's a great opportunity for utilities to look at the way they've been doing things. Take a step back and say, hey, if we're living in spreadsheets and we're doing this in a very manual way and oh, by the way, we're having to account for this on an annual basis. And we're getting the folks from our compliance team that are asking questions. And if it's in a spreadsheet, it's really hard to track what actually happened and what changed. So there's all these challenges with these spreadsheet based systems. And the problem that we have is the status quo is working so well, working just well enough that it's really hard to drive change. What we're finding is is that when there's something that breaks, you know, some sort of issue with a customer delivery problem or a customer problem or a customer says, hey, I need this. And I'm willing to pay this extra money. There's an opportunity there. It's times like these when there's a great opportunity to take a step back and say, hey, is there a better way here? Now, let me to a question because there's these different stakeholder groups you're working with or who have this challenge. Or maybe to them, they don't actually see it as a challenge, right? It's their comfort zone. It's that status quo that you mentioned. But would you say there is someone who, what maybe it's the CIO, it's a chief sustainability officer manager, like who are these internal champions you guys have, have identified. So who can really take the ball forward, make the case to the executive team and same thing kind of manage and champion that down the chain. We maybe describe one or two of those folks who you guys are working with. They really help make these decisions hopefully happen much faster or build this case where why we need to address this now. So we what we found is that we have found champions and advocates and all ends of of our customers. So everybody from the CIO to the chief customer officer, chief sustainability officer, all the way down to folks that are boots on the ground, the ones that are maybe living in these spreadsheets that I've been talking about. And it really runs the gamut. And that's what makes it fun and exciting because also there hasn't necessarily been a shared language of around the problem that I've been describing here. So in our case, one of our customers Duke energy had been mandated by the Utility Commission in North Carolina to create an hourly tracking system where they couldn't just use the spreadsheet based system. They needed a kind of a true, you know, shared software space where they could, you know, report on this to the regulators. And so for us, our champions became the Clean Energy team that was accountable to the Utility Commission. And also in their case, you had, you know, kind of cross-functional buy-in from folks on the customer team that saw that there was an opportunity to better engage some of their larger, more sophisticated customer teams who know that there's an opportunity to drive more revenue for the business through better customer programs, if you will. We're an example of how a team identified the issue that come out there, even though it was mandated by the regulators. And then they become like a almost an advocate for the change in moving it forward. It's probably a good way, as you know, in the Utility space, is this is just learning, they try to be fast followers, right? And maybe slow followers is actually a better way to categorize it. But once you have someone out there leading like Duke energy, that's definitely a good story to share and tell. And hopefully encourage others to move a little faster there on there. So what is, to move it a step further, Patrick, as you see there, very familiar with the challenges. And, and you know, Chuck, go at these conferences probably, and when you hear AI robots and all the things of the future and how they're happening so quickly, but in reality, we know there are very much mundane tasks that happen every day within the Utility that need to be sorted out there. So how do we, what are these first steps of action that, that some of the peer utilities out there, or clean tech community, or maybe it's regulators, regulators should be thinking about to maybe take these steps so they can ultimately increase these efficiencies, reduce cost. And as you mentioned, it all comes back to much better customer engagement and empowerment. What, what should they be doing in terms of action to get to these next steps? So so many things, but I think the things that kind of stand up to me, or just kind of off the top of my head, listen to, listen to your customers. Obviously, utilities are in the business of serving customers and, and delighting them. And, and the way they can do that is by hearing what customers are asking for. And one of the patterns that we've been hearing is is that customers want more from their utilities, they want more data, they want more granularity, they want more frequency of things. Okay, so how do you go about delivering those things for any given customer? Well, it all starts with the data. And I think, you know, to the point you just made Jason about everybody's all hyped on the AI and the, the potential impact it could have. Well, everybody also knows that the reality is, is in order for these models to work and to have maximum benefit, it's got to be quality data on the way. And, and so the other thing that I would recommend is to take a hard look at how data flows through your organization. Oftentimes, and I'd say the vast majority of the time, what we're finding is that most teams are very reliant and, and perhaps overly reliant on a series of spreadsheets that may be plug in with other disparate systems. And so when you've got a bunch of spreadsheet systems kind of propping up the table, so to speak, it makes it very difficult for an IT team to be proactive serving these AI solutions. In other words, they're kind of constantly playing this game of catchup and not able to do sort of the, the more exciting kind of new pioneering opportunities. So all of that, you know, manifests in a, maybe a less than ideal customer experience, but again, if, if customers can start by, you know, providing good clarity to their utilities, utilities can take a hard look internally around how does the data flow, where are our bottlenecks, and engage their IT partners in this process. It becomes a much easier way to engage and start to think about ways to help, you know, bring about change. Very good points there. In getting there, Patrick, like, what are some of these education tools or strategies you're seeing that are maybe helping inform this broader, broader community of how to, how do we get there? You have any recommendations on, on good education, tactics or strategies that the collective industry can, can help embrace to, to get this message out to the industry. Well, I think from on one hand, you know, the utility ecosystem is a very well-connected one, where everybody seems to know their peers are different utilities and whatnot. And while it's great that you know your peers at all, your kind of related utility counterparts in different parts of the, of the United States, that's great. But ultimately, what we need is we need people to know more folks cross-functionally. And so I think that starts with getting to know your colleagues internally and starting to appreciate what is this side of our utility do and how do they do it? And why is it that we don't interface more with them? So kind of looking inward before you look outward. When you look outward and I'm looking at a lot of the conference circuit that's out there, many of the conferences are out there, you're they're talking to peers. But in the same way, I'm suggesting talk to different counterparties and different departments at your own utility, I would encourage people to talk to different parts of different other utilities and try to get cross-pollination because in many ways the problems are very, very similar, but maybe the language that's used to describe those problems is suddenly different depending on where in the country you're talking. And that lack of shared language, you know, perhaps as part of the puzzle here, right? Absolutely, absolutely. I want to follow up on the need briefly touched on it. I think across the industries, they are grappling with some of the broader federal implications here. But I've been to a few conferences past this first quarter of the year. And one of the messages is, yes, there are certainly significant uncertainty out there with some of the changes happening at the federal level. But one that has stuck out to me, which I want to get your take on, is that you have a government can enable, you know, enable some of these things or as a player. But a lot of this 89% is private sector driven. So I want to get your take because I think you touched on this brief real little earlier. Are you continuing to see the private sector really want to engage and embrace these types of solutions for their customers? Yeah, we're not seeing any slowdown, you know, contrary to maybe some of the headlines that you're reading. Our belief is that as the WRI is kind of halfway into the GHG scope 2 rewrite, we believe that once the kind of the the scope 2 rewrite is out and there's kind of better clarity in terms of the new accounting method moving forward, we believe there's going to be a lot more companies that jump into the pool. Certainly between now and then, I don't think we need to expect a bunch of companies that maybe haven't made any public commitments to jump in, especially in light of what's happening at the federal level. But we're certainly not seeing a slowdown by any means with regard to our customers and the market that has sort of got us where we are. And it's very important to recognize that the voluntary market is extremely significant. They've been able to drive the needle and you look at some of the numbers come out of SEBA and that particular, you know, association of corporate energy buyers. The amount of clean electricity that they've brought to bear to the grid is really remarkable. So I think we really have to give credit where credit is due that the private sector has been an amazing catalyst. And I believe it will continue to be the case. Certainly as more clarity comes with how we net out with some of the IRA incentives and whatnot. I mean, your guess is as good as mine, but our fundamental belief is that the federal government wants to see, you know, companies, you know, succeeding and being able to make money in the process. And so we're very bullish that despite the uncertainty in the short-term, and certainly the tariffs are not an insignificant element to the equation, but we're still very, very bullish over the long run in terms of the demand for clean energy and the expectation that more and more customers are going to want that and put pressure on their suppliers and utilities to deliver those types of products. Appreciate that. Thank you. I think that that's a big message. I think there's a collective sense of urgency. I'm seeing and feeling from all sides that we have to move forward. And I think that just reinforces those who sometimes they don't get to hear all this. Like sometimes the buzz can be overwhelming. So I appreciate you sharing that with our listeners. This has been a fascinating and sometimes funny, you know, as we're talking through spreadsheet. So sometimes it was popping up in my mind. I'm not sure if you've seen like office space and the TPS reports so I was having a good laugh. And also I think the modern lingo is like anytime we say spreadsheets, we could just put it like a trigger warning trigger warning and I'm about to say spreadsheets because sometimes that's like there's a sense of all because they love them and then others, right? Maybe you want to see these move forward. It's like, oh, not not this again. So all these like different thoughts were coming through my mind as you talk through. You know, well, and that's a reality, but it's also like the opportunity is there to really meet customers where they are and really take this energy transition that we're all we all have a stake in and make a reality. That's that's 100% correct. And I, you know, here I am, harping on spreadsheets when the reality is is that they themselves were a transformative technology 20 years ago. But hey guys, it's time to upgrade to something that's more modern day. I mean, think about some of the magic that we've been able to produce in the technology arena recently. It's time to apply these, you know, more advanced capabilities and and and leverage them because we don't have time. It's the energy transition is upon us and the energy industry in particular is very sophisticated in certain ways, but the grid is not. And there's a huge opportunity for us to to modernize and transform very quickly. And so it's an exciting time. Yes, it is. I'll give you the final word here, Patrick. I always want to end on on what's what's your recommendation for new folks or maybe transitioning workers who are maybe want to dip their toe into exploring this industry. What would you say? How would you convince them why they should consider a career and either utility space or the clean tech space? I think the the utility of the future is a really exciting opportunity. And I say that because these are these are players that are critical parts of our society that everybody relies on and everything is being increasingly electric. And and so if we want if we want to be able to continue to sort of evolve as a society and and continue to grow, then our utilities need to evolve as a business. They need to instead of just producing power from, you know, one or two sites and making sure the lights are are left on are able to turn on and you flip on the light switch to being able to be resilient and to know the types of power resources into leverage customer data when you're scheduling power and dispatching power. And so there's a really exciting opportunity in many different facets of the industry to jump in on. And no matter if your skills or your training or your background is more STEM oriented or or you know maybe on the opposite of the spectrum, there's a place for everybody in this industry. And so I think the more and this is coming from somebody who didn't spend 20 years in the energy industry. But as I've learned about it over the last three years, I've been blown away by that the amount of opportunity to apply this kind of forward thinking technology. And so I would encourage everybody to jump in. There's no shortage of information floating around on the lakes of LinkedIn or just anywhere in different places in the internet. There's several resources. I think, you know, you're probably no better than anybody, Jason. But it's a it's a really exciting time for anybody that's maybe looking for a place to make an impact if you will. Thank you. Thanks for sharing that Patrick. It's been a pleasure having you joined us for Z Prime on the grid, looking forward to getting this out to our audience. Patrick Davis, clear trace. You can find them at cleartrace.io. You can also find them on LinkedIn and Twitter. Patrick's been great. Thank you so much for being here today. Many thanks, Jason.