title: The Tonight Show & Electric Hot Dog: Jimmy Fallon
author: How I Built This with Guy Raz
contenttype: podcast
publication: How I Built This with Guy Raz
published: 2022-06-27T03:10:00-04:00
sourceurl: https://rss.art19.com/episodes/4b7615dd-b2f5-476e-8708-6555fdbd661e.mp3?rss_browser=BAhJIg1PdmVyY2FzdAY6BkVU--3fdaf693ac55dc369c0201a1ede82e0232030d6c
word_count: 14775
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Take the next step in your entrepreneurial journey with a graduate program at Babson College. The alma mater of a ring founder, Jamie Simanov, Bombas co-founder, David Heath, and Butcherbox founder, Mike Selgero, whose stories you've heard right here on how I built this. Babson gives you the skills, network, and hands-on experience to turn your ideas into reality. Learn more at babson.edu slash grad school. Welcome to How I Built This, a show about innovators, entrepreneurs, idealists, and the stories behind the movements they built. A few years ago, I received a call from a producer on the Tonight Show. She wanted to know if I could come to New York the next week and appear as a guest. Once I cut through my minor panic and heart palpitations, I asked why me? Well, to my great surprise and delight, she told me Jimmy Fallon was a fan of the show. Turns out, he's obsessed with stories about founders. Over the years, I've had a few more opportunities to come on his show and talk about some of the founders we've had on this show, and usually, Jimmy pitches me on a bunch of his business ideas. He's wanted to make toaster waffles embedded with emojis, cheese slices, shaped like circles, so they fit better on hamburgers, and even vitamins in iDrop form. And some of his ideas have turned into real products, for example. If you wear glasses, you might find yourself fidgeting with them from time to time, twirling them around by the arms. Jimmy invented a pair of glasses where the hinge is on a ball bearing that twirls, and Warby Parker actually produced them. All the proceeds, like most of the products Jimmy sells or endorses, go to charity. Anyway, one of the things I noticed about Jimmy and the Tonight Show crew is that it is an incredibly well-oiled machine. But more importantly, every single person associated with the show, whether it was a page who brought me up the elevator to the security team, a check-in, to the bookers, to the segment producers, to the makeup crew, to Jimmy himself. Each person is incredibly kind. Like, so kind, you notice it, and that's not by accident. The person you see on TV every night, delivering a monologue, or dressing up as a character in singing, or playing a game with a celebrity, he really seems to be exactly that person off-screen as well. Jimmy Fallon is interested in the people he talks to. He almost always has a story to tell, and he's usually laughing. And he happens to have built an incredible brand around his personality. Even if it wasn't intentional, or part of a plan. Jimmy Fallon is now one of the most important drivers of revenue for NBC. And outside of his relentless job as host of the Tonight Show, he somehow manages to run a production company that produces several TV shows, he writes children's books, records music, and is constantly coming up with new business ideas. Like all the people I've had on this show, Jimmy Fallon is an entrepreneurial thinker. He's restless, always needing to create something new. But as a kid, he was also super focused, almost hyper-focused on one unwavering goal. To one day, become a cast member on Saturday Night Live, he even knew the name of the executive producer, Lauren Michaels. Jimmy grew up in the 70s and 80s in Upstate New York in a middle class Irish Catholic family. And early on, in order to learn everything he could about comedy and performing, he invested in some serious high-end technology. Garage sales were like a happening thing in the 80s. And so I went to this garage on a body, Real to Real, recorder, a tiny one. And you could record with the real to real for hours. So I would record radio shows, I would record TV. I would record Saturday Night Live. So if it was on and I was awake or watching it, I would record Steve Martin's monologue on a Real to Real, and then I'd have it. And so I could listen to it again and memorize it and lip sync it or perform it. Or pretend Steve Martin would go, hey, okay, okay, I'm going to do this. And I want to actually sound like him or do him or do Richard Pryor, imitate exactly his joke and his timing. And that was basically owning records, but I didn't have to spend the money on records. I could just tape it off the one speaker on my Heath kit television set. Were you comfortable just getting in from people, your parents' friends, kids at school, on stage at school, and just performing? You know, I wasn't really, I'm trying to remember where it actually kind of flipped over. But I mean, like our grandparents used to live in our backyard, not like in the yard, in a little house. Yeah, yeah, exactly. They had them in the cage. We'd throw food at them. They would live, they had a little cottage kind of in the back, tiny, tiny. So we'd have parties all the time. There was a lot of drinking and singing and crying and a lot of entertaining everyone would get up and sing something, you know. My parents would say, hey, you and Gloria go do something or sing a song or do you have anything? You want to you know, we do it. Gloria is your sister. Yeah, so we would perform and we would do these, the Silent Live, check brothers, not even knowing what the joke meant. What crews for them on our tight slacks would you give us great the bull jazz? We would be dressing like the diskoeist outfits, you know, from my dad's closet, my mom's closet and hats, floppy hats, and we are too wild and crazy guys. Anyway, we have to go to Statue of Liberty to get birth control devices. That told us that in America, many American park arrangers distribute the birth control devices. And my grandmother would be like, what are they talking? What are they saying? And we didn't know with that. Man, I thought it was like a robot thing or something device, a birth control device. I didn't know what jokes, what we were just doing and we were getting laughs. So that was kind of a thing. Then, you know, I got into Rodney Dangerfield, you know, at an early age and I would put on one of my dad's ties and I would just do his act. My wife's cooking so bad, you know. This is a 10 year old kid talking to us. My wife, oh, are cooking so bad since when does toast have bones, you know. All right. My parents are going to be like a dollar, you know, or my grandparents would be like 50 cents to do it, you know. Yeah, I wonder, I mean, because you can make an analogy between a kid who's just really talented at basketball or baseball. And there are kids like Mike Traut was an amazing youth baseball player, right? Like, like Bryce Harper, people knew that at the time. Did anybody when you were 10, 11, 12 say to you or your parents, he's really talented. Like this, this is not just funny, fun. Like, there's something here. I don't know, you know, I don't think so. I remember, I got some report card once that said I smile too much, which is hilarious to me. He doesn't take things serious. I think they were kind of was their point or something because I was just, I was just laugh if someone said something to me. I think, but I do remember that report card coming back and like, what a weird thing for someone to say. I think it was kindergarten. Who would ever say your kid smiles too much, but that was a real actual report from my teacher. I do remember graduating from eighth grade. My yearbook said, and this is true. I can, if you can believe me over this podcast, I can somehow get a photo to you somehow or maybe I'll tweet it when this airs, but it said, most likely to replace David Letterman. Amazing. Yeah, eighth grade. Eighth grade. It's like, unless no Stardomis was my principal, you know, who would know, but no one ever said, hey, he has a future. We didn't do that in our town. No one knew that you could get out of your goals were kind of, I'm going to do what my dad does or something, or what my mom does, but IBM was really the only thing happening in our little town. And so that was kind of a lot of people's goals to work at IBM. So I want to ask you about doing stand-up comedy, because that's where you would kind of start your career, right? And I think you started doing it pretty early. How did you get into stand-up? Stand-up, I started in my senior year in high school. There was a radio contest of who can do the funniest impression in Hudson Valley. And my mom heard about this on the radio. And she said, she came out to my room. She's like, I wrote this down. You have to do this contest, because I hear all the voices you do in your room. And you blah, blah, blah. And I go, okay, let's do it. I'll enter this contest. And she believed in me. And I was 17 at the time. I think I had one minute to do any impression. And instead, I wanted to make do as many impressions as I could in one minute. I think I ended up doing like 10 impressions. Bill Cosby, Casey Kassum, Bullwinkle, John Travolta. And I was basing it all up. Someone gave me a troll doll as a graduation gift, like a good luck class of 1992. And it was a troll doll holding a diploma. And I thought it was very nice, but also what am I going to do with this doll? And so I remember doing different celebrities auditioning for a commercial for troll dolls. So I do Travolta and go like, geez, I can't like, who does his hair? Like, what kind of dolls does his arms and legs don't even move? And I remember at the time I was in the Bullwinkle. And so I did Bullwinkle saying like, these trolls are nice, but I'd rather play with myself or something like that. And then I pull that a Bullwinkle doll. And I go, well, you know what I mean? You know, I'll play with the doll. And then I go next up Peewee Herman. And it was right when the scandal was coming out. And I closed with Peewee going, I know what you mean. I like to play with myself too. And I did that. And that was my closer. And it was like topical edgy, you know, all in one minute. And it's like, I had a solid minute. And I ended up winning the contest. And then I got the bug that the comedy club bananas and Pekipsey, New York, they said, would you come MC? And so I used to work on weekends. My dad would drive me to gigs and you stand up. You knew, right? Already in high school that you wanted to be on Serenna live. And you went to college. And you eventually, you dropped out while you were in college, you were doing stand up. You were I'm saying, I mean, were you, were you methodical and intentional about it? I mean, were you thinking yourself, this is like, I need to do this to get better and better? Or did you just love doing it? Or was it both of those things? Better and better, I think was my first thing. Like I got to just get better enough. So if I kept, you know, having dreams of like, Lauren Michaels calling me up, finding me an Albany and going like, Jimmy, Dana Carveri's sick, we need you to come in, you know, and I go, done I can do, I can do the church lady, you know, and whatever. And you know, you think that way. You go like, yeah, why would no one would ever call someone to come in and replace the church lady or whatever Dana's bits, you know, that he's doing already? But that in my head, I pictured him doing that and going, that's the way I'm going to get on Serenna live. I mean, you, when you dropped out of college, you decided to move to Los Angeles, you were 21. And you were moving out there with the single pursuit of just honing your craft, trying to get better and better. You had a plan in mind? I worked at this local newspaper in Troy, New York, outside of Albany called Metroland. And the owner of Metroland is Guy Peter Island, who was moving to LA to become a music manager. So he was leaving Albany to go to where Hollywood is. I mean, where the business was. So I was, I was, I was working, I was a secretary. So I would answer the phones. And he was leaving. And I said, Hey, if you see anybody, here's my head shot and my tape of my troll act that I was doing in college, my troll doll act. I go, if you see anybody, he goes, I'm not doing comedy, but okay, I'll take it with me. And he took it with him to LA. And he worked at this company. And there was this woman that worked there called her name is Randy Siegel. And she worked for a manager named Ray Rio at at Brostin Gray. That's not a lot of names, but let me explain something. Bernie Brostin and Brad Gray were the biggest entertainment managers in the business. And anyone who knew anything about Sarah Live at the time, a lot of cast members were on the roster of Brostin Gray. So I go, Oh my gosh, if any connection to Brostin Gray, yeah, that's my step in. This is getting closer and closer to me. This is something. So Randy called me in Albany and said, Jimmy Fallon, this is Randy Siegel. She goes, I think you have something. And I think you have to come out to LA immediately because it's a thing called pilot season. And this one people try out for shows. And you could get a sitcom and blah, blah, blah. And she says, I think you're a little green, but we could work on your act. And I think we can get you on to something. I think you're very castable and you're likable and funny. And I go, I don't really want to be on a sitcom though. I'd love to be on I want to be on Sarah Live. And she was like, okay, all right, well, I mean, good. That's great. I mean, hey, if you can do that, fantastic. But let's audition for other shows just so you can get used to this thing. We'll work on getting you know, Sarah Live, like, you know, that's a long shot. And so I go, I'm just going to call my parents and say, Hey, I got this opportunity. And I don't think it's going to come again. And I just I borrowed all the money. I could borrow to $3,000, maybe from my dad, my grandparents, let me money. And I moved out to LA. I flew out on some airline that doesn't exist anymore. Right. But they were like, just get out here now. You could sleep in the couch and just go to auditions. And this is this is the way you're going to do it. And I go, okay. So, so when you got out there, when when you got out to LA, what do you remember? What was it like? What did you do? I lived on another one of the managers couches. I slept on his couch and his living room for probably about a month and a half or two months until I could find a place in my owner and see how I can afford. I didn't have a car because my dad was like, you can't afford it and you can't drive out and all the stuff. And that was a really big mistake because in LA, you need a car to run anywhere. You can't go across the street without driving. You go, wait, I could see, I know, you can't get there. I mean in LA, they go, I know the best place to go for a walk. You go, where they go, take the 405 to the one oh, no, I have to drive to get to the place to walk. So I'm like, everything's driving. So I'm like, that was a mistake, but I used to get rides and then go to the club early and just wait and stay there until it's my time to go on stage. And you would just do any stand-up gig you could get? Anything. I did any gig I can get. The improv was my home club. I auditioned for them and say, say, yes, you'll get like a Thursday night spot or something like that. I go, okay. So Thursday night they put you up 10, 45 or 11 o'clock at night and you get paid $7 and 13 cents or something weird and technical like that. I still have one of the checkstubs and you just work on your act and you keep showing up and if you do well, they invite you back and do next Thursday, next Thursday it becomes a steady gig and you do Wednesday and Thursday and then you get invited to do a weekend gig, a Saturday gig. And that one you get paid like $8. Big step up. Did you spend a lot of time at night writing, writing down material? I mean, you were because basically you're going to get better and better and better and sometimes you're going to really suck right on stage, but over time you're getting more confident. Yes, that's what's all about just honing the act and tinkering and changing one little bit and one thing or one, if something gets a laugh, you know, I remember I videotape my act, you know, and sometimes I even just carried the video camera in my guitar case and record the audio of my act. And I would listen to my act all day long the next day and analyze it as a comedian, you have nothing really to do during the day. So during the day, I just watched, you know, general hospital or, you know, crisis right and then I just work on bits and working impressions and work on what lines I thought would be, oh, that's sticking out of my head or that's a good bit. I guess which is kind of what I was doing, you know, when I was a kid, you know, in my bedroom. Yeah, you would, I mean, you would record yourself, watch it or listen to it, which is really hard. I mean, that can be really painful, especially when you think you didn't perform it. I even 25 years of doing this, it's hard for me to listen to myself. I do listen to the show and critique myself. It's hard because I kick myself, but like, you know, you read about athlete to sit in the screening room and just watch a game where they just sucked and it's really hard. Did you? How did you do that? How did you get through listening to your performances? You live and learn. You know, you do things that are hacky and you go, like, well, I know that gets a laugh, but I can't leave it in my act because it's too corny. And trying something that you think is going to be so funny and have it tank and you go like, all right, I hope they invite me back because that one was rough. I remember once guy, I thought it would be so. I think it was a show showcase was a big deal. Like if HBO came to the improv and they're going to watch new comedians, they would showcase like five comedians and out of those five, hopefully one person would get on HBO or something. And I remember not getting on those showcases, but if I was the first comedian on after that showcase, they're still in the room. So if I scored then, it's almost like being on the showcase. You know, and I remember trying to grow my goatee as long as I could or be her or mustache. And it's very wispy and embarrassing. But I did. And I went and I shaved on stage. It had nothing to do with my act. But in my brain, I go, this is Andy Kaufman. This is a so avant-garde. Everyone is going to talk about it. Who is the guy that shaved on stage? That was genius. That bit. I didn't know. Dude, it was so overthought and then I had to bring a bowl with like kind of water in it. So I can get the shaving cream out of the razor. It was a disaster. It was on my face and it was kind of burning after a while. And I didn't know if I was bleeding. It was so stupid. And I remember it was like the longest 10 minutes. And it just tanked. And I, that was just one of the hundreds, hundreds of times I've tanked in front of an audience. Which you have to get. But you have to go through that. You actually have to go through it. And and what happens eventually is years later you miss those days. And you kind of laugh about those days. And I go, now I can talk to you about those days. At the time, I couldn't even walk back into the improv. I was so embarrassed. It was just the worst. But you have to do it. I mean, you have to it just builds your skill level. You're just like, if I can if I can do this when the jokes aren't working, I could definitely do it when the jokes are working. You within two years, you got an audition for SNL in 97. Yeah. Finally, you get your dream opportunity to audition. Oh, yeah. It was every step of the way. I remember I enjoyed every step because I go, Jimmy, this is this is it. You might not make it past this. So just enjoy this because this is the story. But I remember going up and I think I had five minutes or seven minutes and I knew from the first 30 seconds that it wasn't going to be it wasn't going to work. I couldn't latch onto the audience. They didn't I couldn't catch the way I couldn't connect with them. I couldn't get the wave. I was like, I knew it. I was like, you know, I'm doing this troll doll thing and Lauren was there. I some walk in. He had a baseball hat on and you know, really pulled down and he kind of sat in the darkness. And I think, you know, I just remember it did not go well. And I remember leaving and there was a diner next door and I just went to the diner next door and had coffee with my manager and, you know, and it was sad and it was like a depressing diner night. And so I just had to kind of get over it and, you know, I probably cried. I don't know. I mean, this is a dream guy. This is all I ever wanted. I mean, this is yeah. Every time I cut into a birthday cake, I would wish for Silent Live. Every time I threw a coin and a fountain, it was obsessive. And so it was crushing and then I kind of I think I blocked it out and then just kind of went back to work and then go, okay, I got to improve this troll doll act. You, I mean, you go back and it's discouraging, but you in your mind know that you've got to go for this again. Like, there's going to be, I mean, did you know there was going to be another chance? I didn't. But in my head, I just kind of will that I can't that they're almost like they're making a mistake. They have to they have to have me like they have to realize I will pay them to be on Silent Live, you know, at the time, you know, I thought that would mean something. Yeah, they have to realize I will do it for free. When we come back in just a moment, Jimmy's remarkable run on Saturday Night Live is not so remarkable film career and the phone call that made him a star of late night TV. Stay with us. I'm Guy Roz and you're listening to How I Built This. 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Hey, welcome back to how I built this. I'm Guy Razz. So it's 1997 and Jimmy has just blown his audition for SNL in front of the show's creator, Lauren Michaels, and it seems like his dream job may never happen, but he does finally land a gig. It's a pilot for a TV show on the WB Network. The show was about a catering business, and I was a, I was like the delivery boy or something, and it was great experience. I loved it. It was called Tasty Sensations, and I just remember when I was doing my contract for that, and it was like this is a big deal to get a pilot, though, a show that was about to air, and it was a big producer involved, and I remember signing the contract, and I said, can I just ask one thing, if I get signed at live, can I get out of this show? I remember them going, this is ridiculous. We're not going to put this into contract, but no one's ever, we've never, no. And then I think someone said to someone, let's just sign the contract, this guy's not going to get signed at live. And so they put an extra page in the contract, never been done before, never been done since I don't think, but saying, if I get signed at live, I get out of the show, out of my contract. It's all said and done. And it's incredible that you got that clause into your contract because in 1998, a year after your first audition, you got another audition for SNL, and anybody listening should just Google Jimmy Fallon, SNL, I have auditioned. It's so amazing to watch because you're so young and yeah. And so, I might be embarrassing for you to watch, or I don't know, maybe you cringe, but it's really lovely, and it's a really great impressions that you're doing in stage, Jerry Seinfeld, and Chris Rock, and you two. And how long did it take for you to find out whether you were in, whether you made it or not? So yeah, when they make you wait, you know, like two, three weeks, I think I was in LA, I went back out to LA, and they said, they're thinking about it. And then they called my manager and said, lorms in LA next week. And so he wants to meet with Jimmy and his office at Paramount Studios. And you know, at that time, I had a car and I drove onto the lot and Paramount Studios, and it's a beautiful, it's like the godfather, you know, that's where they, you know, they shot the godfather, and you see that Paramount, it's in old school Hollywood studio. It makes you feel like you're in the business. It's so cool to go into that lot. And I remember walking into Lauren's office and everything was white. It was very kind of perfect. And I walked in and I sat across the desk from him and he was like, Jimmy, do you wear wigs? And I was like, uh, and I misunderstood. I thought he meant, because I was spiking my hair up at the time. So I go like, oh no, I do this to my hair and I, you know, I can do it anyway. I can part of the side. I know I'm well, so nervous. And he goes, no, no, what I'm saying is I've you don't, you do characters, because you know, what I'm saying is we want you for the show. And it was just so silent after that and slow motion and so emotional. I don't really remember the rest of the interview with him, but I remember leaving and going, I hope I make you proud. And leaving. And then I went to the first pay phone I could find and call my mom and I just lost it. I was like just yeah. Wow, I was like, dude, I got it and we were both crying. It was great. She must have been so proud. Oh, it was great. She was so proud. My dad, every my sister, it's the American dream. You don't even believe that this could happen from a small town. I had no connections. My family was not in the business. No one, I knew was in the business. You know, it was it really went down and it was just like all right. So now I'm coming back home to New York, triumphant, you know, and I'm so happy. You you were like a student of the show, a super fan. You'd seen practically every episode you've done impressions of almost every character you've been on it. Like all of a sudden you are now in a show with your heroes. People you've been watching the season before. Yeah. And studying. I mean, I can't imagine the pressure that you know, I once saw like an interview that Bill Hader did talking about how nervous he would get before Santa live. Just so nervous, you know, because I guess over the loudspeaker that say, you know, 10 minutes to live on national television. Yeah. Five minutes to live on national television. It is a live television show. Live in New York, it's Saturday night. You know, broadcast that to millions of people, which is rare. They don't do that anymore. No, but just hearing Don Parto say your name gave me goosebumps. I couldn't I could only picture my brain, but for him to say like, you know, and or to watch him do it. You know, even if I wasn't in the show, I was just so still so happy. Sometimes they would actually cut your picture and name out of the opening credits if you weren't in the show. I mean, how cruel is that? But what do you when you had to go on stage for the debut in 1998? I mean, yeah, were you okay with that? Were you scared? Were you? Do you? I mean scared. Yeah, butterflies. It was my first ever gig was I played Gilbert Godfried. I did an impression of Gilbert Godfried. It was a great premise. It was the Hollywood squares, except there was an earthquake in Hollywood and this all crumbled. The squares all disaster. But they kept playing the game. So it was all crumbled and people those blood everywhere. But they they were like, I want to take French treasure to block. You know, and so I was Gilbert Godfried and I was covered in blood and I holding it my intestines or something. You know, and I go, my line was I am holding my entire intestinal track and I go. And that was my first line I ever said I'm sorry alive and it got a big laugh. And I go, oh my gosh. And I was it and I was like cloud nine the best thing best night of my life after party. My manager there, my parents were there, my sister was there. Every comedian you know from so everyone was there. They said, oh, you're the kid that did Gilbert Godfried. That was good. And, you know, the internet was starting at the time. Yeah. And so there was like an SNL site that they would review the show and be really, you know, hard on the show. And they said this new kid Jimmy found did a great Gilbert Godfried. He's got promise. And you know, I printed those things out and clipped them out and kept them. One of the things that I guess sort of happened to you was that you you really, I don't know if you sought him out or it just happened that that Lauren Michaels kind of became a really important mentor. I mean, you were all of a sudden you're in New York and you're starting to get recognized. And you know, eventually you get very famous. And he, I guess you really kind of sought out his advice and mentorship. Yeah, you know, when you first are on the show, you're just, you're very kind of intimidated and scared to talk to Lauren. I just didn't want to be fired really. I just wanted, that was my thing. I'm like, just don't get fired man. Just stay on for, you know, two seasons and that's great, you know, and so but at the after parties, Marcy Klein, I give her credit for this. She was like, will you go over and say thank you to Lauren. I go, I just don't want to bother. She was do Jimmy go over right now and thank him. I go, okay, and I go up to Lauren, he had his table and he would be there with, you know, you name it. I mean Paul Simon, you know, whoever someone's sitting there and you go and I go, thank you. And he go, okay, you did a good job or something like that. And I go, okay. And then through the years, thank you, became like Lauren, Critcho, you know, I'm sorry, I messed that, but this could have been better. That was her. And he's like, no, that was good and did that. And then it got to Lauren, hi, thank you. And he's like, come sit down. And then you're sitting at the table. And then now then by the end of it, it's like every party I'm sitting at the table. So it's Lauren and I talking about the show and you know, and then your friends and you go like, oh my gosh, what an, I can't believe what happened in three years compared to how nervous I was. But I think, you know, no one's that intimidating. You know, it really everyone wants to in this business, I think, you know, they want to see it work. They want their nice and so smart. And they just want to be around fun and funny people. So we really hit it off, you know, and we became really, really, really good friends. And he's like, one of my best friends right now. All right. So by 2000, I or the early 2000s, you're, you become like a staple on, on SNL. You're heard like a bunch of different sketches and you're doing tons of impressions. But at some point, did it just become a job or were you still like, you know, this is amazing. I can't believe I'm here. Yeah. I mean, you know, you reach a certain part where again, you start peeking and you become a favorite of the show. And then you start, in my, my head, I started getting into too many sketches. You know, they were just throw me in sketches just because, you know, people would want to see me. They weren't necessarily because you would oftentimes you, people want to see laugh. That became a thing at one point. Yeah. I mean, I'm an easy laffer. And so I would break a lot, but not in purpose. And it started with cowbell, you know, because I was out of my league. I was out of my league in that sketch. And I just can't even hear that word in those words in the line. I remember so funny. He was my thinking. And I was in the sketch. And it was one of the funniest things, you know, but to be honest, it wasn't that funny when we did it at Dress rehearsal. And it was in the, it was in the Wainsworld section of 8H on the stage, which is, it's famous for Wainsworld now. But at the, at the time, it was also famous for where sketches go to die. So if you do, you have a sketch in that section of the stage, it usually means you're going to get cut. And so, I think they just thought it was funny that those cowbell and don't fear the reaper. You know, if you look at the liner and I was the drummer, don't fear the reaper. You know, Christopher Walken was the producer and he had to keep coming out and go like, guys, that take was okay, but, I couldn't use the little more cowbell. So let's take it again. And Jean, yeah, really explore the studio. I was like, okay, I'm going to do something that no one's, because we're lip syncing the song. I was like, I'm going to do something, no one's done. I like when I'm hearing it. And I remember I had drumsticks and I was like, yeah, and I go, I'm going to count off with my sticks. Like I go, I hear we go like, and then lip syncing and I go, that is, that is, people are going to say, Jimmy, that saved the sketch. It was so real that you did that drum stick stupid thing that I thought was so funny. And then what happened was, of course, the unplanned, which was we made it to air. And everyone was the funniest version of themselves. They could have ever been ever. Chris Parnell, Chris Catan, Horatio, Christopher Walken wasn't even sounding like he was speaking English. He was doing such an impression of Christopher Walken. I got a fever. And the only prescription is small cowbell. Will Parnell wore a smaller shirt on air. So when he lifted up his hands to hit the cowbell, his gut fell out of the bottom of his, under this thing. And it was so funny that it was like hot almost. I remember the temperature being hot in the room. And I remember I had one line like, and Will looks at me and he's sweating. And I saw the eyes of a crazy man. And I just started laughing. I just thought this is the funniest thing I ever saw. And then I remember, I think after party, you know, everyone was like, cowbell was funny. That was good. And then they go, yeah, I don't, you know, Jimmy, don't do that. You know, we don't do that here. You know, I don't like people breaking like, yeah. And I go, I'm sorry, I didn't do it on purpose. I just thought it was funny. And they go, right, but you're in the sketch. You're not watching the sketch. We don't need you to laugh. It's, I mean, it's amazing that the cowbell more cowbell sketch became one of the historic sketches. I mean, it's one of the 10, you know, best known sketches in center of life history. I guess you started, I mean, you know, once you started to really become like a fan favorite on the show, you started to get a lot of pitches to be in, to do films and other projects. And I guess got to a point where it just wasn't sustainable. You could not do, say, not live and films. And so, so, so you left to 2004. You leave the dream job after six years to pursue this film career. I want to, I want to ask you about your acting career because this was part of be short. I want to hear the music on this part cut to sad music playing behind me now. This is pretty sad. Make, make note that bring the sad music on. Yeah. My music career. It didn't last long, but it was, I mean, you know, part of it, it seems to me that you, you kind of decided that you didn't really want to pursue it because it wasn't that long, right? I mean, it can take some time before you make a film that. Thank you, guy. Yeah, it was not that long. I left Sarah Live going, again, I want to be Eddie Murphy. I want to be Baluci. I want to be Bill Murray. That's what you learn from Sarah Live. That's the path. That's what they do. Yeah, you do that and then you do movies. And so, I was just really picky about my roles and what I was going to do. And then I remember someone said, dude, you got to do something. Or else you're going to miss the boat. And I chose taxi because Queen Latifah just had a hit with Steve Martin. And it was the most successful film of all time in France. Taxi. Wow. Yeah, I think they made like four of them. So I was like, okay, if this hits big, I'll do four of these. This is a franchise. It's not even like this Jurassic Park of comedy. This is like, wow, this doesn't happen. So I did it and we had so much fun doing it. I just put all my my eggs in that basket. I didn't, I should have done three movies and just hope that one hit, you know? Instead, I put everything into taxi. And when it came out, it just tanked. And I was starting to film my second and final movie fever pitch. And you know, once taxi didn't work, everyone kind of got cold feet. And it was like, and you kind of get like a like a stink around you in Hollywood like, oh, he's not the guy we thought it was going to be. He's not, yeah, not any Murphy. And so when that fever pitch came out and that didn't open, I was like, oh, where, what am I going to do? I have no, I had no plan. Yeah. You know, it's interesting because every failure is it is, it's hard, especially while you're experiencing it. But in every case on, in every interview I've done on the show, every failure has been like a gift or a blessing. That's what I thought you were going to say. Yeah, because it's tough and it's like, it's an ego check. It's a really, it's a confidence zapper. I mean, but you had to, you specifically had to do that. I mean, you met your wife on the set of fever pitch. Like the person that you would spend the rest of your life with and that you created family with like that would not have happened if you didn't experience that. No, yeah, those three years of failure. Correct. I mean, I made so many great friends from that. And memories from that. And Drew Barrymore, but the biggest thing, yeah, my wife Nancy Jivonen was the producer of that film with Drew. And that's where we got the spark. And we just loved, we used to hang out almost every night for the months. Just, you know, not dating or doing anything. Just hanging out, she was so interesting and beautiful and different and smart. And I go, I'd never met anyone like this ever. And then I was again, I didn't want to get fired. I didn't want to do it. So I didn't do anything while we're filming, but then we're selling the movie and promoting it. And I said, man, I go, I miss you. You know, I haven't, I missed hanging out. She goes, I miss you too. And I go, well, let's hang out. And she's like, okay. And then we just started just dating then. You know, and I was, and then yeah, she stuck with me through the dark periods and still motivates me and to do whatever I do and get me to keep going, keep moving forward and trying stuff. And you need that. When Lauren Michaels sort of approached you to think about maybe doing late night when you're on a Bryan was going to, you know, be moved to the the earlier hour. Did you think that? I mean, because I would have thought, oh, this is awesome. This is, this is amazing, an amazing opportunity. I mean, it's a late show. It was on like 1230. But did you think it was sort of a step backwards? Or did you think that it was a huge opportunity? Or how did you, what do you think about it initially? At the time, I didn't want to do it. I was leaving the show. I was going to do movies. And that was my goal. I didn't want to do sitcom. I just didn't, I didn't want to do television. I was like, I'm a movie guy. And so I remember leaving in Conan, O'Brien was promised to take over the tonight show from J. Lennon in six years time or something. And so I was leaving and Lauren goes, would you ever want to host a late night? You know, because you could take over Conan in six years if it doesn't. I want to go and we're kind of laughing. I don't know if he was joking or serious. And Tina Fay was in the office and she goes, you'd actually be good at that. She goes, because you talked to all these people. You go to bars and you just talked to all this. I mean, you love talking to people. I think you'd be great at it. And I go, yeah, yeah, well, I don't know. I mean, my movie career weights, you know, and it just didn't work out. And then, you know, I had a couple of years where you just go, I don't know what to do. And then I got to call from Lauren. And he goes, do you remember when I asked you if you want to take over for Conan O'Brien? I go, yeah, and he goes, do you want to do that? And I was like, well, yeah, I mean, well, let me think about this. I mean, I want to, I have to ask my wife for the married now. So I asked Nancy. I'm in LA and she goes, are you kidding? Yes, you have to do this. We're told you have to do this. Jimmy, you're on a list. There's David Letterman Conan O'Brien in you. That's it. There's only three people. That's amazing list to be on. You have to. And so I said, I called Lauren and go, yes, I want to do this. And he's like, okay, great. Now I just got to convince NBC. And, you know, so NBC didn't want me for late night because the movies didn't work. And I wasn't hot, you know. And so they wanted other people and they were going to give it to someone else. And then I remember Lauren just stepping in kind of and saying, look, I know, geez, I got no Jimmy. I know his work ethic. And if it's not Jimmy, then you don't have me as a producer. I'm not going to produce. Wow. He really stepped it up. And I remember him doing that. And then they got serious. And so Jeff Zucker at the time was running the network. And I had to have meetings with Jeff. And then he was like, you know that this is a lot of work, right? I go, yeah, you kept asking me that like, do you know it's a little ton of work. I go, yeah, I know Jeff, I mean, at this time, I didn't want to say it. But again, now I'm kind of desperate. Man, I don't know what I'm going to do. I mean, this is an opportunity. It's unbelievable. And they take over for Conan O'Brien who's fantastic. I'm the biggest Conan O'Brien fan. He was my first late night talk show, you know? Yeah. And so I'm going to do whatever I think I have to do to make this show a hit. When we come back in just a moment, Jimmy talks about how he comes up with new ideas, whether he's working on a bit a book, a new show or a new product that you never knew you needed. Stay with us. I'm Guy Razz and you're listening to How I Built This. I built that thing. Do that. Do that. Learn more at Adobe.com slash do that with Acrobat. Have you guys heard about this polar bear? He did the Pepsi challenge and chose Pepsi Zero Sugar. Isn't that right, Mr. Bear? Interesting. So in other words, you now know how much taste matters. Incredible. Do you have any techniques we could share with listeners to help them also accept who they really are? Interesting. So meditation, I think, or he's hungry. It's hard to read polar bears. Let's give it a go. Go out and try Pepsi Zero Sugar today. You deserve taste. You deserve Pepsi. Hey, welcome back to How I Built This. I'm Guy Razz. So it's 2009 and Jimmy has just become the host of Late Night on NBC. A few years later, he'll graduate to one of the most coveted jobs in television host of the tonight show. But Late Night is where he really begins to build a personal brand. When you started hosting that show, one of the things that you really did and became kind of a signature of what you do is just singing with famous people and getting them to do things that are just unbelievable, like getting Paul McCartney onto the show to sing yesterday, but to sing about scrambled eggs. How did you do that? How did you convince people to do those things? I don't know. I just think at the time in my brain that just made sense. That's something they should do. And you go, I have an idea if Paul McCartney's like, this would be funny. What if he went back to his original recording of yesterday with his words that he wrote down with scrambled eggs and we just finished the song and it's the whole song about food. And so I kind of pitched it to him. He was on Silent Live and I went into his dressing room and he's so nice. And I go, I probably go, hello, Jim. And so I go, well, I got this idea and he goes, okay, he goes, well, can you sing it for me? And I go, oh my gosh, I didn't plan it. So I go, okay. So I had the script. So I'm like scrambled eggs. Oh my darling, how I love your legs, but not as much, you know, whatever. And all of a sudden, he's playing his guitar. The one that he played yesterday on and singing with his head right next to me looking at the lyrics. And I'm freaking out. I could tell he's into it. He's laughing. And I go, oh my gosh, this is going to be fun. I love your life. And so then that moment just kind of happened, you know, and I'm a fan of a giant fan of Paul McCartney. So he knew that it was coming from, I'm a fan, you know, I'm not just looking for a hit and just got your moment. Come out, we'll do scrambled eggs and you split and I don't never see again. I'm like, I love you. So I as a fan of Paul McCartney, I would like to see this. So I think I sometimes come across from that angle as well. Like they get tells coming from the place of joy and fandom and I wouldn't make you look bad. You know, one of the things that I have to assume happened in 2009 when you took over late night. And then, you know, eventually the tonight show is all of a sudden you went from being Jimmy Fallon. You've got your agent, you know, maybe one or two people who you kind of work with to overseeing, kind of overseeing, a really large staff. I mean, there's a showrunner, but I mean, all of those people, all of those every single person in that chain is working really hard, but it's up to you to execute. And you're kind of the leader of a really big team of people. And that's a different experience. Oh, that's a totally different experience. Completely. And it's not my, why wheelhouse at all. And it's not even, you know, it's not even why I got hired because you know, you don't see yourself as a leader. You don't have those to natural tendencies. No, I mean, I definitely do, but you know, I just know that that's not what got me the job. What got me the job was my work ethic. And I think my thirst for entertaining, you know, and trying to make a great party. And then as, like you said, as it grows, you have to start making business decisions and being the manager and running an office. And it's a tricky thing that I'm still learning, but it's curveballs being thrown every day. And there's a lot of problem solving. And you wish you read more del Carnegie, you know, then, then listen to Rodney Dangerfield albums because you probably could have learned some more. Still a really useful book. Everyone friends in close to just amazingly useful book. I mean, it's so basic, but it's like, and it seems obvious, but it's so right on. It is, right. And that's, but I never went to business school or studied management or any of that stuff. And it's just almost like life lessons and kind of apologizing before you even do anything. You're like, guys, I don't know how to do this, but let's just see if we can get this off the ground, you know? And I have a lot of support and a lot of help obviously, but it is definitely you're involved. I mean, it's a full on immersion. I mean, it's my life. I mean, I read somewhere that in your, I think in your first year on late night, you brought in like almost $200 million in revenue for NBC. So, I mean, that's a massive, massive business. I mean, that's a huge success, right? You are the host of this show. It's a really successful business. There are lots of people involved. How do you do so much? I mean, on any given day, you can see an amazing, highly produced video, just for social media that you've made, that your team has made that you're in. And you can imagine how long it took to do that. There's so much work that happens around the actual beyond the live recordings of the show. There's so much that you're doing is your time just beyond your control? Are there, is there are there people or somebody who essentially tells you where you need to be at all times? You know, I mean, I have a very great assistant that Kelly Powers, who's honestly, she's the secret sauce, but always keeps me on time and let, you know, tells me where I'm supposed to be and all that stuff. But we have tons of producers that are on point and they know how to plan ahead and it's all planned. I mean, right now, you know, we have sketches and stuff that we're starting to film that will air two months from now just because I mean, I'm already thinking about next year. I'm thinking about, you know, what can we do for holidays? You know, whatever bits you can think of, the sooner you can think about it, do it now and get it rolling so that you can go like, is this a possibility? Hey, this is a silly idea. How can we get, you know, Elizabeth Olson to do one division without wardrobe or anything and on a zoom camera, but still make it with our production and what we could do on our end and I have a great team and great set designers and costume and wardrobe and man did I miss them, you know, when the pandemic, when you did those at home shows, you just miss all of that and you go, oh my gosh, boy did we take that for granted, you know. But those shows were really special. They were really, really cool. I haven't gone back and watched them, you know, but I should or because a lot of people come out to you and they go, I love the at home things and I go, yeah, I kind of remember just thinking I don't know how I'm doing all this. It was just me and my wife and me and Nancy and when that all happened, I went home and my wife was like, what's the plan? I go, I don't know, no one knows. I don't know, they were just off until they tell us to come back. She goes, she goes, oh no, no, you can't. This is when people need you. This is exactly the time when you do not take off. No, no, no, get your phone, get a tripod and do this. And this is at the time when I couldn't even, it was like kind of almost illegal to drive to a store, was to get essentials, you know, and so in my head an essential was a tripod. So I went to like a best buy, got a tripod that held iPhones and then just started doing stuff and putting, I asked NBC if I could put things on YouTube with like a website of a charity and I just film more and more hours of stuff and just send it off to our editor, Justin Oberg who would edit from his apartment in Brooklyn to try to get on the air on NBC. And it was like, it was bizarre. It was a real trippy time and I was trying to think and solve everyone, you know, whatever I could do to help. Whatever I could do to get people to think of anything else but this awful pandemic. That was my gig there and I just tried to make it work. You know, we could spend the entire episode talking about like your entrepreneurial ideas, some of which happened like pacifiers with dolls attached or you know ideas like magnetized tennis balls or cranberry slices that you put a turkey sandwich. You have lots of ideas, some of which you actually go glasses that you can twirl. And then you have an entire business that's a production company with shows that you've already released that have been some have been really successful shows that you're not in like the kids tonight show and an usual called password. I mean all these things that you are part of and I wonder, do you, you know, because from the outside it can seem overwhelming like I'm sure people ask you this all the time. They'll say how do you do it? Because is a part of you, do you need to constantly create stuff to just keep yourself stimulated? Is there a party that just has to do that? I think so. I think there might be. You know, my wife will say to like, you know, thank God for the show because I have so many ideas and I don't know what I would do with them. You know, like last night I just wake up in the middle of the night and I have an idea for for when the holidays come around like what instead of elf on the shelf, what if it's Elvis on the shelf? And so he but he's cool. He doesn't rat on you, you know, like these ideas. I don't know if they are anything. That's funny, but I could see Elvis present going like, hey man, you're so well, you know, and there's something to that. And so I love you know, when I would ever see you and I would just tell you dumb ideas I have because I have just lists. You know, today I thought of someone should so much create a balloon that's good for the environment. Yeah, like made it of cornstarch or something. Yeah, does it exist? It might. I was thinking about celebrating my, you know, my wife's birthday and I'm like, I can't get balloons because you know, they're just terrible. I mean, like, and they go, who was not solved the balloon thing? I go, someone must have. I mean, maybe on Shark Tank or something, but we can have kids parties and balloons are cool and actually put them up in the air. Who cares? Let them fly into the ocean. They're good for the ocean. They're fish food. I mean, you, you were an actor. I mean, you were a comedian and an actor and then a talk show host. And today you're all the things, but you, I mean, you created businesses, production companies, books, television shows that employ lots of people. I mean, you are an entrepreneur. I mean, it's, and it's just sound weird to hear you describe that way. Yeah, because you know, I'm just, I don't, I don't, it's just kind of me. I don't have a real, but I guess I do have, I'm so slowly forming a team or stuff, but it's just, I mean, there's, there's probably, I mean, how big is the staff that's in the show? Oh, man, probably, 400 people. I mean, there's probably a thousand people who are employed in some capacity because of your work. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. It's such an honor. I'm so lucky to get to do this, but it's like, what's great about where we film and you've been on the show, you've seen it, it's kind of an intimate show. It doesn't feel like you're, you're, you had it at O2 Arena, you know, you, you, it feels small-ish, you know, but still show business. I mean, you're coming through the curtain. It's 200 people, but you don't think you're talking to millions. So, to me, it kind of feels like home. Like, you know, I remember when I was on Silent Live, I, I wanted to sleep on the stage one night, just get it like a blanket and sleep. Eventually someone talked me out of it, but I was going to sneak down and do it just because I wanted it to feel like home. Go like, that's my stage. Like, anything, if you can do what you do in your house and front of people, you know, be that comfortable, that would be the best. So, I think it keeps growing and, you know, I don't want to do the same thing. I always go like, what can I do that's something else that I go like, ah, that could be just something fun to do. Again, not thinking about money or can it be franchise, can it be something to go with this, does someone need this? Is this something that should exist? And, you know, and that's kind of where I, I think of a lot of my best ideas come from. Can you, like, I'm, Kirish, can you give me an example? Like, I wrote a book called Your Baby's First Word will be Dad Dad, because I thought it was funny, because I had my first baby and I was hoping that she would say, Dad Dad first. No one, we didn't have a competition. We didn't talk about it. Me and my wife, there was no competition, but there was one sided competition. I wanted the baby to say, Dad Dad, so I was like, whatever I could do to get this kid to say, Dad Dad, I don't care. I was, I was giving like bottles of milk and going, like, do you want Dad Dad? Do you want a dad like thinking that she would confuse milk with Dad Dad and ask for Dad Dad? And so I made this book just where it's just, you know, animal sounds quack, you know, and then the adult duck is saying, just say Dad Dad, you know, the baby won't say quack and the cows wants you to say Dad Dad and the calf says, Mew, you know, and no one says Dad Dad. And it took off and it became a giant thing. And then, like, started getting videos from people of their kids, them reading the book to their kids, but their kids reading it back to them. And they're saying, like Jimmy, you kind of taught my kid they had to read. Like, no, that is not, I mean, that was never the plan at all. I'm freaking out because this is a reward. I did not see coming at all. And it's really rewarding. It's pretty cool to feel like a teacher. You know, one of the things that I'm curious about is you're still, you've got, you know, 25, maybe 30 years of Johnny Carson for a long time, you're not yet 50, you can do this for a long time. But, you know, there's also a model which is like a Merv Griffin. He started Wheel of Fortune and like he had this massive production company and he was a major, like major sort of Hollywood mogul. And there's a, there's that model too, which is he was a talk show host. He had a show and people thought of him that way. But he had this giant like media business behind him. Is any part of that appealing to you as kind of a model? Because you can do that. I mean, in a sense, what you're doing now could be a version of that. If it's fun, yeah, I think, you know, there's certain things I can do that I don't do because I don't know. Do I want to have meetings every night? Do I want to dinner with people? I don't know. I don't feel like that. You know, I kind of like doing my own thing and at this pace, I can do my own thing but still make the stuff I want to do in the same quality. You know, I think if you get too crazy and you, I start coming out with my own line of this and that, I go, I don't know if I can control all that quality control. And that's up to this point. I think I've done a pretty good job at whatever I've done. It's been a pretty decent quality. And, whether it's a Christmas song or if it's a silly invention or something or a TV show. How comfortable, I mean, you mentioned, like, kind of being a control freak. And maybe that's the right term. And I totally, you know, resonance, resonance with me because when you do something that you love and is meaningful and you feel like it's a high quality product, you really want to be involved with it. But, you know, how do you, I mean, your name and your brand, let's say, and brand is a weird word to use around it, a human, but no, it's a reality. It's attached to the things you do, whether it's your books or the tonight show, which is so high quality. And then all of these shows that you're part of. So, clash of the cover bands, that's my jam, password, the kids tonight show. You can't be involved. Like, some of that requires just letting go, right? And letting other people kind of, you know, oversee that brand. How comfortable are you with that? Not very. And I think, you know, some of the things that I can see, I go, if I did that, I would have done it differently. And I would have, you know, but you have to let people stretch to around you and grow and give people opportunities and stuff like that. And but, you know, the key is surround yourself with good people. Get me the best person so we can get to this goal and have a hit, which is rare. It's so hard to have a hit show. You know, that's my jam was so hard to do kind of. It's a lot. I mean, it's like, how to create a stage and get a budget and book the show and get a good placement when the show comes out. And, you know, are people going to watch because it's up against football, which is the only thing people are watching. And it did well. It because people could see that it came from a good place. I hope. And, you know, I think about that when I have my guests on the show, I'd like a lot of stuff. And I feel like I don't want to come off as a genuine, you know, like that I like everything, you know. I don't like everything, but I may have opinions on things, but I know how much work goes into this stuff. Yeah. And I go like, I know no one wants to make a flop. And this was, you know, six months of your life making this TV show or movie or, you know, and sometimes people know when it's a flop, you know, they come on the show and they're like, yeah. Jimmy, this one is a rough one. And I go, okay, let's go, let's go, man. It's part of the business. And I want to be here for the highs. And I want to be here for the lows. Yeah. And I think even Miley Cyrus gave some great advice on my show. She was like, it's all ebbs and flows, man. She's an experienced actor, for sure. Yeah. As of you. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So don't get too excited when it's going well and don't get too bummed out when it's not going, which remarkable to me about your show is that it is really even when you think a show isn't good, it's still funny. There's still really great moments and the quality of the show is so high. And you're doing that every single night. We on our team are trying to do that once a week. And I feel a lot of pressure, you know, I want our show to be worth someone's time because I'm asking somebody to give me an hour and a half of their time to listen to the show. And I don't want to waste their time. Exactly. And so how does that sort of feed into and form the way you think about all the projects you do? I mean, you got to show up. You got to get in early and you got to leave late. You know, the best people do. And if you care, it shows. And it just, it actually spreads around the office. And it's like, you know, like when there's bad news about ratings or something, you know, I don't care about that stuff. I don't even care when we're winning. But it's like, you know, we had Daniel Craig on the show. We were talking about James Bond. And he got cast as, you know, James Bond. And he got slammed in the press. Slammed. They like, blonde bond. How come we have a blonde James Bond and blew up? Who is this guy? And they trashed him. And as publicist or somebody said, don't read the internet, which is always hilarious to me. That means it's terrible. I mean, it's like, oh, everyone loves you. But don't read the internet. It's like, so of course, first of all he does, he reads the internet and he said it was so awful and so depressing. And he went to set and everyone had read the internet and everyone was just depressed around him. And he was like, I got to buck up, man, I'm James Bond. I got to be the leader here. And I got to tell everyone, I know you're all reading this stuff, but it's not true. We didn't even shoot a piece of film yet. We didn't even know if I'm a bad James Bond. And once he came out of the water, paparazzi got shots of him coming out of the water like James Bond. He was the number one thing. And everyone's like, he's going to be the best James Bond. But it's just interesting how that like energy flows. So I think you have to love it and you have to know that put your energy into quality and putting the love into it. But I wonder when you think about where you want to be in 10 or 15 years. I mean, do you think that far ahead and think, you know, I think I want to maybe produce a bunch of shows and kind of be on the sidelines and maybe be in some of them. And I don't know, does it ever kind of cross your mind? I would be lying if I said I didn't think about it. But I don't, you know, I always come to the conclusion that I wouldn't be happy with that. I just think I feel like I could do this for the rest of my life. As long as NBC and the audience wouldn't will have me, I will. I think why not? I think let's see how good, how good can it get? You know, how good can I get interviewing? I'm getting better every year. I do this. And so I think I want to just keep going until the audience doesn't want it anymore. But I think I think about the history. I think of Leno, I think of Johnny Carson and I think of Steve Allen and I go, I think they would want me to go further. And I wish Johnny Carson could see how big the tonight show has gotten. Because, you know, that Tomahawk was the biggest clip from the tonight show or the potato chip lady. And that was no internet. That existed just from word of mouth. I mean, and re-earing a clip. But I mean, like, imagine, I mean, it's global. There's people from around the world that come to the tonight show now. It's like, I want to see how big I can make this. And I want to see how, how better can I get? I think I know a version of what the sense for my people. Maybe I'm wrong. Because you've kind of hinted at it. But when you think about, you know, where you were, and where you started, and where you came from, and where you are today, I mean, you are probably one of the, I think, one of the easily one of the 50 most famous people in the United States, recognizable. I mean, when you just think about where you've come to, who you are, how much of that do you attribute to just the grind? Because you did work really hard. And how much do you think it has to do with luck? There's a piece of luck without a doubt. But I think also this drive, and you really have to practice and practice and practice because you never know when luck is going to come. You know, all of a sudden, it happens and you go, oh, that was my lucky day. You know, it's funny. I have a picture in my office hanging in its two photos. One is Paul McCartney pointing out at this crowd. And the other picture is me in the crowd because I'm the one who's pointing out. And I'll never forget this was September 19th. I was my birthday. And Paul McCartney was playing in Brooklyn at Barclays Center. And that's where I was born in Brooklyn. So I went to the Paul McCartney show. And in the middle of the show, is it someone's birthday out there? Is it someone's birthday? You know, I go, of course, he's going to play a birthday. You know, you're going to hear the Beatles. And I love that song. And you know, he probably, you know, he does that. It's that always someone's birthday, right? Yeah. He goes, yeah, there's Jim out there. And he go, Jim, I go, that's interesting. Cause he does call me Jim. And he goes, yeah, there's Jim Fallon out there. And I go, what? And then everyone just kind of turned around and kind of looked to me and I went nuts. And I was like, oh my gosh. And he goes, this is for you. And he's saying, you know, birthday, the Beatles. And then he's saying that and it's unbelievable. And then he finished, he goes, yeah, it's right. That's Jim's birthday. He kept saying it. And I go, oh my gosh. It's like a 10-minute biddy's doing. He goes, yeah, happy. And he sang the regular happy birthday to the whole Barclays Center sang it to me. And I go and someone has a great photo of it. And it's me next to Lord Michaels and my wife Nancy. And it's in my office. And I go, if I was 12-year-old me or 13-year-old me looking at this photo and go, dude, you are going to be sitting next to your idol at a Paul McCartney concert where he's singing to you and that gorgeous girl you're married to. It's the greatest photo I could have ever taken or seen in my life. That's Jimmy Fallon, host of the tonight show with Jimmy Fallon and CEO of the production company Electric Hotdog. By the way, every few months on the show, Jimmy has a segment called Fallon Vensions. He invites kids to come on and show off their inventions. For example, one kid came up with gloves embedded with small wooden blocks. It allows you to clap for your favorite team at winter sports events. Another kid, a 12-year-old, invented a cat carrier with a plastic slide on the bottom to help pull out the cat safely without getting scratched. Jimmy also showed off some of his inventions, including over-ear headphones shaped like giant ears. Hey, thanks so much for listening to the show this week. If you want to contact the team, our email address is hibt at id.wondery.com. If you want to follow us on Twitter, our account is at how I built this and mine is at GuyRaz. And on Instagram, I'm at Guy.Raz. This episode was produced by J.C. Howard with music composed by Rhymteen Arabli. It was edited by Niva Grant with research help from Sam Paulson. Our production staff also includes Elaine Coates, John Isabella, Liz Metzger, Carrie Thompson, Catherine Cipher, Alex Chung, Chris Messini, Carla Estevez, and Josh Lash. I'm GuyRaz and you've been listening to How I Built This.