Bloodline: Part 1

Podcast: Bear Brook
Source: whisper-base
Language: en
Duration: 2403s
URL: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/tracking.swap.fm/track/0bDcdoop59bdTYSfajQW/stitcher.simplecastaudio.com/bc53232d-d115-4799-937b-75b732433fa2/episodes/054a1854-ea80-4682-bb3f-ac285fe9ae6b/audio/128/default.mp3?aid=rss_feed&awCollectionId=bc53232d-d115-4799-937b-75b732433fa2&awEpisodeId=054a1854-ea80-4682-bb3f-ac285fe9ae6b&feed=RGpV1rjX
Fetched: 2026-03-03 05:18:22

Previously on Bearbrook, you need another coat, all right, Larry, your Pritzky back, hurt his Kimble, hurt his Kimble, our Gerald Monkman, who the heck is this guy, really? And who's that little girl? I've always tried to live by the model that there's no offense against the true. But sometimes it's hard to find out what the truth is, you've got one side and the other side and something down the middle that people might perceive to be the true. Most stories like to be told chronologically. This happened and this happened and so on. But in so many ways, this is not your typical story. The narrative arc is more like a four-dimensional maze, one that bounces around through time and around the country. It's all connected, but it's hard to know where to start. The beginning, the middle, the end, it all changed depending on where you come in, all of which is to say we're going back to the 80s again. To another beginning of this story, to another mystery that by the end will lead us back to our beginning in the woods of Bearbrook State Park. This is Bearbrook. I'm Jason Moon. In 1986, a man calling himself Gordon Jensen arrived at an RV park in Scotts Valley, California. He had a five-year-old girl with him. A girl he said was his daughter. Her name was Lisa. Gordon Jensen and Lisa lived out of a small truck camper at the RV park, which was called the Holiday Host RV Park. The owners called it that because it was on the site of what used to be a weird theme park called Santa's Village. In its heyday, Santa's Village was 25 acres of Christmas on steroids. There were gingerbread houses, a toy factory, even a refrigerated North Pole that kids could stick their tongues to. But the theme park went out of business, and all that had been left to rot. By the time Gordon Jensen and Lisa arrived, it was like a Christmas ghost town in the woods. Also at the Holiday Host RV Park in 1986 was an elderly couple, Richard and Catherine Decker. They were from San Bernardino, California, about seven hours south. They were only staying for a few months. Richard had landed a temporary job with the state. The Decker's became friendly with Gordon Jensen and Lisa. They had a grandson. He and Lisa became playmates. Before long, the Decker started keeping an eye on Lisa while Gordon Jensen was busy. They grew fond of Lisa. Started to really care for her. Years later, a detective named Peter Headley would tell the Decker's their relationship with Lisa probably saved her life. They did. If they hadn't been there at that particular time, said the right things, she would not be here today. Headley works in the crimes against children detail at the San Bernardino Sheriff's Department. It's a line of work that he sums up in his characteristically terse way. It can be very difficult. What do you mean? How do I put that in words? Did just seeing the effects on victims can be, it's tough. Detective Headley's understated style strikes me as being at odds with the rest of his life, which involves chasing criminals and his favorite hobby, skydiving. And I should say that Detective Headley would eventually come to play a pivotal role in Lisa's life. And today, he's one of the only people who is alive and willing to tell this part of the story. But back in 1986, when Gordon Jensen and five-year-old Lisa first came to holiday host, he had nothing to do with it. In any case, Detective Headley says that back then, the Decker's were becoming concerned about Lisa. They both knew something was very wrong with the situation. They noticed how thin she looked, that she didn't seem to have any toys, and living out of that tiny truck camper. It was hard living for a five-year-old. Gordon Jensen told the Decker's that Lisa's mother died of cancer when Lisa was just a baby. In fact, Catherine Decker would later tell reporters that he openly cried about it. She says she felt horrible for him. And Gordon Jensen also admitted to the Decker's that he was having a hard time raising Lisa on his own. And they had told him that their daughter had trouble conceiving and she'd like to adopt children, and he ended up saying, well, if you take her on a trial adoption. The idea was that the Decker's would take Lisa to their daughter and her husband, down in San Bernardino, for a period of three weeks. If things went well, they would come back to the RV park with an attorney and make the adoption legal. It wasn't the most well-thought-out plan, but Gordon Jensen seemed eager to get Lisa off his hands, and the Decker's were confident their daughter could offer Lisa a better life than the one she had. So they went ahead with it. The Decker's headed to San Bernardino with their new granddaughter. They were just down here a matter of weeks, and they realized that something was very wrong, and that she had been molested. Away from Gordon Jensen in the RV park, Lisa started showing signs of abuse. She started touching the Decker's son-in-law inappropriately, and she was beginning to talk about the things Gordon Jensen had done to her. I don't know the exact details of the abuse, but one police department would later describe what happened by saying that Lisa was, quote, severely molested and tortured. Getting Gordon Jensen to sign legal adoption papers now seemed more important than ever, but the Decker's soon realized that was no longer an option. They brought her back down here, and when they tried to re-contact him, he was gone. Gordon Jensen had vanished from the holiday host RV park. The Decker's didn't know what to do, but eventually they decided to turn to the police. In the summer of 1986, they brought Lisa to the San Bernardino Sheriff's Department, detectives questioned the Decker's and Lisa. Then they took Lisa into protective custody. The Decker's had to say goodbye. Even if they had rescued her, had saved her life, she wasn't legally their child. I talked to Mrs. Decker, her husband had passed on. Basically, I told her you saved her life. She did. They did. How did she take that when you told her that? She was very emotional. She had always wondered what had happened to Lisa and really cared about her. Do as far as you know, have they ever reconnected? I have talked to Mrs. Decker and told her what had happened afterwards, and I had passed on information to Lisa about Mrs. Decker. I don't know if they ever connected or not. Lisa went into foster care and was eventually adopted. Today, she's married with three children of her own. She's asked for privacy from reporters, but in a statement released through law enforcement, she says she's living a, quote, happy and secure life. Of course, that's not the end of the story, though. Back in 1986, after the Decker's handed over Lisa to the police, a warrant was issued for Gordon Jensen's arrest. It was for two charges, child malice station, and child abandonment. But when detectives tried to track him down, they quickly hit a dead aunt. All of the records he'd left behind at the RV park were fake. The truck camper he and Lisa had lived out of had a Texas license plate, but it was registered to an address that turned out to be a motel room. The social security number on his job application to work at the RV park was fake, and even the name he'd been using at Holiday Host, Gordon Jensen, was also phony. Detectives were able to pull a fingerprint from the RV park. It came back with a different name. Curtis Kimble At first, they thought they'd caught a break. Curtis Kimble had an arrest record from a few months before he arrived at the RV park. It was from Cypress, California near LA. Curtis Kimble was pulled over for drunk driving. Lisa was in the car with him at the time. But that was it. Beyond that one arrest, the name Curtis Kimble didn't seem to go anywhere. There was no driver's license or real social security number attached to it. Nothing that could tell detectives where he was from. Peeling back one fake name seemed to lead to another, which left detectives with no idea how to find him. And it wasn't until he was arrested in 1988 that those charges were brought up to him. In 1988, two years after abandoning Lisa, Curtis Kimble was arrested again. But not because police had tracked him down. He was pulled over for driving a stolen car in San Luis Obispo, California, about three hours south of the RV park. At the time, Curtis Kimble gave police another phony name. He said he was Gerald Mockerman. Again, here's Detective Peter Headley. And at that point, there were a goddess finger prints. He was still in custody for the stolen vehicle. So when the prints came back, he was still there. And that's when they found the previous warrant under the other name, Curtis Kimble. So in 1988, police had figured out that Curtis Kimble and Gordon Jensen were the same guy. And they had him in jail, facing charges from molesting and abandoning Lisa and for driving a stolen car. And this is an important moment in the timeline because it's here that detectives came so close to figuring out the truth. So close to establishing the fact that as we learned in the last episode, Lisa wasn't actually his daughter, but she'd been kidnapped. In 1989, an investigator working the child abandonment charge told a reporter, quote, my guess is he picked her up somewhere and was keeping her as a sex slave. One prosecutor even said he would try to force Curtis Kimble into taking a paternity test to establish their relationship once and for all. But that paternity test never happened. At least not all the way. They got as far as taking a blood sample from Lisa, but they never got one from Curtis Kimble. I'm not exactly sure why that paternity test was never finished. But my best guess is that it was because Curtis Kimble took a plea deal. In 1989, he pled guilty to child abandonment and return the child molestation and stolen vehicle charges were dropped. This is pretty standard in case you're wondering. The vast majority of convictions in America over 90% are the result of plea deals. It helps prosecutors avoid lengthy trials and work through more cases more quickly. But in this instance, it worked out pretty well for Curtis Kimble too. By avoiding a trial, he avoided that paternity test and further scrutiny to his past. Curtis Kimble was sentenced to three years in prison for child abandonment. In 1990, about halfway through his sentence, he was released on parole. He fled almost immediately and became a fugitive. The next time police had him in custody was in 2003. After he had changed his identity once more, to Larry van Erb and murdered Unsungun. It's hard not to wonder how things might have gone differently if that paternity test had been finished back in 1989. Prosecutors could have charged Curtis Kimble with kidnap, and child abduction. Charges which could have put him away for a lot longer than a few years. And maybe most importantly, the investigation into Lisa's true identity could have gotten started right away. Instead, it wasn't until 2003, some 14 years later, that the investigation into Lisa's identity began. And if not for Contra Costa County Detective Roxham Grunhide, it might never have began. Remember, she was investigating her own case, the murder of Unsungun, when she first learned about Lisa. And for whatever reason, a hunch and intuition, she decided to finish that paternity test. Detectives had started so many years earlier. I got the report back that was scientifically definitive. Like, this person is not biologically related to this person. And I'm like, holy moly, you know what I mean? Like this is crazy right now. Like there's like, once Roxanne saw the results of that paternity test, she called the San Bernardino Sheriff's Department. That was the police department where the Deckers had brought Lisa back in the 80s, so they had jurisdiction over the case. But by 2003, the detectives in San Bernardino who first worked on the Lisa case, who had spoken to the Deckers were gone. The new detectives didn't know that their predecessors had once openly speculated that Lisa was a sex slave. Roxanne says all they knew was the official story that ended up in the case file. They had a little girl or father hurt her, gave her away to this couple. He went to prison. Her mother's purportedly deceased. She goes to foster Karen is adopted. For all intents and purposes back then, their case was closed. And so here I am calling from 20 years later going, hey you guys have a, you got to work this. Like you got to find out who she is. And the response first was like, you know, we don't have a we don't have an open found child case. And I'm like, yeah you do. Remember at this point, Kimble was serving 15 years for the murder of Unsun Jun. So once Roxanne convinced police in San Bernardino to reopen the Lisa case, she decided to have one last conversation with Curtis Kimble. She went to the Pleasant Valley State Prison in Coalinga, California and asked him point blank, where did Lisa come from? Where were her real parents? And I think that he, you know, he knew exactly what he was doing. And what it, and basically he was just playing us. He was just, you know, he was saying stuff like, well, you know, yeah, they said I had a daughter, you know, back in the day, but, you know, I don't remember, you know, they said I gave her away, you know, but I can't imagine I would have done that. But, you know, but I, you know, I'm an alcoholic. I drink a lot. I don't have any meant, my memories shine on. And I, you know, I was just thinking you're, you're lying, you're, you're left foot off right now. You know what I mean? Roxanne didn't get anything useful out of Curtis Kimble. And no one ever will. That's because in 2010, Curtis Kimble died at the High Desert State Prison in Northern California. According to his death certificate, the cause of death was a mix of pulmonary amthezema, pneumonia, and lung cancer. His body was cremated. His ashes were thrown into the ocean off the coast of Santa Cruz. Curtis Kimble had no visitors while he was in prison, not even a single phone call. He never tried to make a deal with prosecutors with the information he had. He never bragged about it to other inmates. As far as we can tell, he never told anyone the truth about his life. Whatever he knew about who Lisa really was or what happened to her mother, he kept it all inside. And when he died, it was gone. In 2003, when the San Bernardino Sheriff's Department opened a new investigation aimed at finding her true identity, Lisa was 22 years old. But that investigation quickly went nowhere for all the same reasons that Bearbrook investigation did. No identity of the victim nowhere to begin. And for 10 years, there was little movement on the case. Then in 2013, when Lisa was 32 years old, Detective Peter Hadley took over the case. He's the understated skydiving detective we heard from earlier. When Detective Hadley took over, the road to solving the case was as steep as ever. Nearly everything Curtis Kimble had said to anyone was a lie, and Lisa was so young when she was abandoned that she couldn't offer much help to detectives. Meanwhile, Lisa's identity wasn't the only mystery detectives we're trying to look into. When the case was reopened, detectives had looked back over the story of Lisa's abandonment with the knowledge that Curtis Kimble was capable of murder. Under this new light, new questions arose, like where was Lisa's mother? Had Curtis Kimble killed her? And there was also a story that five-year-old Lisa had told detectives back in the 80s when the Decker's brought her in. A story that, in retrospect, seemed much more ominous than it had when Lisa was a child. When she was first recovered, she was asked about other siblings, and she had said that she did have other siblings, but they had died while they were out camping from eating, quote, unquote, grass mushrooms. When you hear that story from Lisa as a child about the mushrooms, what do you hear as an investigator when you hear that? There's more victims. So not only were they searching for Lisa's identity, but for evidence of other potential murders. Detective Headley started his work on the case by doing pretty much the same thing his predecessors had, trying to find a missing persons report from somewhere around the country that matched Lisa. Anyone who fit the right age range, who could have possibly been in the path of Curtis Kimble before he pops up in California in the mid 80s? Detective Headley found a handful of missing toddler cases from around the country that might be matches. He reached out to the families of the missing children and asked for DNA samples to compare against Lisa. One by one, he ruled them all out. Detective Headley wondered if maybe the problem was that Lisa had been abducted somewhere outside the US, and that's why she wasn't showing up in a missing persons report. One of the stories Curtis Kimble had told about Lisa's mother was that she was a nurse from Canada. Maybe there was some truth in there. So Detective Headley reached out to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, who told them they had a case of a missing toddler that might match. Again, Headley tracked down a family member, got a DNA test, and ruined it out. Detective Headley tried switching tags and turned his focus to Lisa's mother. At different times, Kimble had told people her name was either Donna or Denise. Headley poured over thousands of records of Canadian nursing licensing boards, looking for either of those names. Again, nothing. Detective Headley tried switching focus again, this time to Curtis Kimble. With him, at least there was some sort of paper trail, even if it was full of aliases and fake social security numbers. Detective Headley thought if he could just find one kernel of truth in there, it might eventually lead back to the real Curtis Kimble. His best lead was a set of phone records. He had made some phone calls from the RV park where he abandoned Lisa. One of them was to an RV park in Texas. And I actually found the previous owner of that RV park and he had kept all the records for the park, all the people that had stayed there. And figured if he'd made a phone call, there was somebody there knew him and that was a piece farther back in time to track him. This could be big. If Detective Headley could find somebody who knew Curtis Kimble before he arrived in California, maybe they would know something about where he was from and who he was with. The former owner of that Texas RV park told Detective Headley he had sold the park to the company Campgrounds of America. Detective Headley reached out to the company only to learn that after they bought the RV park, it thrown away all the records from the previous owner. So it's been a very frustrating case when you're going back in time on a cold case because records are gone, people are deceased and just can't remember. Yeah, that must have been a rough day when they told you they've thrown all those records away. I thought I had it. I was a step further back in time and then yeah, it was a big let down. Throughout all these frustrating dead ends, Detective Headley had been in touch with Lisa. Yeah, I have talked to her numerous times during this investigation and she really wanted to know who she was. It was during one of those conversations in 2014 that Lisa offered up a new suggestion to Detective Headley. Why not try one of those genealogy websites like 23 and me are ancestry.com. One of those sites where you send in a DNA sample and they tell you where your ancestors came from and connect you with long lost relatives. At first, Detective Headley dismissed the idea. Genealogy websites probably seemed a little amateurish to him, something meant for hobbyists and retirees. They'd never been used in a criminal investigation the way Lisa was suggesting. And then I would one day was just talking to Lisa again and I'd made her a promise I wasn't going to give up. I was going to keep trying. And she brought up again the genealogy sites and I said, all right, let's try it. And we put her on several different sites and we started getting the head of a fourth cousin, a fifth cousin. I'm like, this might just work. Lisa and Detective Headley didn't know it yet but what they were doing would soon change the face of forensic investigations. It was the beginning of an investigative technique that would not only solve the mystery of Lisa's identity but also cases from all around the country, some of which had baffled police for decades. To understand how Lisa's suggestion led to all that, you need a brief overview of the ways police used DNA testing in criminal investigations. And just know that we're going to explore some of this in greater detail in the next episode. So for now, we're just going over the basics. Let's start with the kind of DNA test you're probably most familiar with. The kind you see in TV cop shows all the time. Police have a DNA sample from a crime scene. They run it through a database to see if they find a match. This type of standard DNA matching test landed its first conviction in 1987 and it's been a mainstay of criminal investigations and TV shows ever since. Then there are paternity and maternity tests. Pretty straightforward, investigators have two samples and they want to know if they're related. This kind of test is also on TV a lot. This is the type of DNA testing that told us that three of the four bearbrook victims are maternally related. Then there's one other kind of DNA test that some police departments have at their disposal. It's called familial DNA testing. This kind of testing searches a police DNA database for near misses instead of exact matches. The basic idea is that if police don't find a match for a suspect's DNA in the database, a familial search might find someone related to the suspect who is in the database. And generally speaking familial testing can detect relatives only as far as the immediate family. And that's pretty much it for law enforcement. But over the last 10 years or so, a newer and more advanced kind of DNA test has been developed and honed by people outside of law enforcement. This new test comes from a world with its own separate interest in DNA testing, genealogy. Genealogist study family lineages by researching ancestors and descendants and building out broad family trees. And they were quick to realize the potential for DNA testing in their work. 23MN is reinventing the way you look at your ancestors using the science of genetics or DNA. But just a small saliva sample, you'll learn about your ancestors. Commercial DNA testing turned out to be a huge hit. Today as many as 12 million people have sent their DNA into a genealogy website according to an industry estimate. Oh wow, this is crazy. 19.9% Japanese. Didn't I guess any of this? At first, the kinds of DNA test genealogists we're using were the same ones police had, paternity and maternity tests to trace those lines of a family tree. But over time, the commercial DNA tests grew more advanced, as companies like Ancestry.com and 23MN competed with each other to squeeze more and more information out of each DNA sample. Before long, the commercial database is made a big breakthrough. Using relative finder to compare his DNA with other 23MN members, George found out that the DNA could be his fifth cousin. What 23MN calls relative finder is based on a new kind of DNA test called an autosomal DNA test. It works on the same principle as the familial DNA testing that some police departments use. It searches a DNA database for relatives instead of exact matches. But the big difference is that autosomal DNA tests are much, much more sensitive. When police run the familial DNA test, they're usually examining 20 different genetic markers to see how well two samples manage. Think of it like a low resolution photograph. It's why familial testing can only detect close family members. And by contrast, the autosomal DNA test being offered by genealogy companies today examined more than 700,000 markers on each DNA sample. With this high resolution test, genealogists can detect relatives as distant as four or even fifth cousins. Speaking of cousins, you have a lot more of them than you probably realize. But to assume you have a really simple family tree where each set of parents has just two or three kids. In that scenario, you have 4,700 fifth cousins. You can discover ancestors from all branches of your family tree. You never know who you might find. This is where things were at. In 2013, when Lisa suggested a genealogy website as a way to find her family. And we started getting ahead of a fourth cousin to fifth cousin. I'm like, this might just work. The matches were a starting point. The first blood relatives Lisa had ever known about. But they were distant relatives. People so far removed that they didn't know anything about her parents or what her real name might be. And think about it. Do you know any of your fifth cousins? Do you know the names of your great, great, great, great grandparents? To go from these distant relatives to finding Lisa's immediate family, detective headly would have to climb all the way up the family tree to find the common ancestor between Lisa and her fifth cousin and then travel back down the tree searching through all the connected generations and every branch looking for the one that Lisa belongs to. It's like trying to find out where one particular leaf grew on a tree after that tree has been cut into pieces and piled in a heap. To do this, you need more than just a match in a database. You need to be well-schooled in the ways of traditional genealogy, birth and death records, wedding announcements, obituaries, social media. Detective headly realized he was going to need some help. Detective headly reached out to a non-profit called dnaadoption.com, which had been using genealogy for years to help adoptees find their biological parents, which is how we met this woman. I'm Barbara Raventer and I'm a genetic genealogist and so-changel. That's genetic genealogist and search angel. Barbara is originally from New Zealand, though now she lives in California. She picked up genealogy like so many others do as a hobby in her retirement. She put her own dna online in 2012 and found a cousin from the UK she'd never met before. The cousin was a 70-year-old man who told Barbara he had just learned from his dna test that the man he'd always thought was his father wasn't. I had no idea how to help him. And so what I did is I went online and I found an online course that was offered by dnaadoption and I took that class and that's actually the technique that I use for doing all of the work that I'm doing now. From one online class, Barbara quickly rose to become an expert in the field. Her PhD in biochemistry, which she has in addition to her law degree, may have helped. Barbara started volunteering with dnaadoption.com and before long she was teaching that class she took along with other duties like answering all the emails that came into the website. And so back in March of 2015, there was a webmail that came in from Peter. And basically he just asked the question, is the technique that we were teaching to adopt teas to find their birth relatives? Could that be used to identify somebody who didn't know either who she is or where she was from? And she said yes, but since you don't have any geographical information, it's going to be a lot harder. Usually with an adoptee, they'll know that they were from this state or this area just from where they were adopted and with Lisa, we had nothing. The task was daunting. It would be a real test of what genetic genealogy was capable of. But Detective Headley was out of options and Barbara enjoys a good challenge. So they dove in. And together they formed a new kind of investigative team, part civilian, part law enforcement, part cutting edge genetic genealogy, part old school detective work, a soft spoken genealogist and an understated detective. They were majoring each other really. First step is you're building these trees. If she followed the family trees down, I would contact the living folk. Because you know if these folks are sharing dna, those and has to be a descendant of that common ancestor. Call them up and say you're related to our victim, will you test? Will you test? Asking that question became a big part of Detective Headley's job during the search. As Barbara followed out the family trees of Lisa's fifth cousins with traditional genealogy, she would run into what genealogists call a brick wall. Basically a dead end in the record. And whenever that happened, Detective Headley would try to get those people nearest the brick wall on the tree to take a DNA test with one of the genealogy sites. The new matches from those people would help Barbara get around the brick wall and continue building out Lisa's family tree. But just getting those tests proved to be a big challenge. It was difficult people to think it was a scam. There were some people that just flat no way. I changed my approach as I went, depending on the feedback I was getting. And I ended up telling people please contact your local department and have them verify me. Earning people's trust was one challenge. Another hurdle was the sheer size of the family tree they were dealing with. There were actually two trees, so there was a maternal tree. And that one, I think, ended up being something like 18,000 people in it. Add to that the other side of the family tree, that makes 25,000 relatives to sift through. 25,000. I mean basically I would get up in the morning and start working on it and I would work on it all day until late until the night. I was just determined I was going to forget this one out. Why do you think you were so driven to work like that on this case? Oh, I do that with everything. I guess I'm a little obsessive. Barbara wasn't paid for any of this, by the way. To her, the project was just like any of the dozens of adoption searches she had done over the years using the same basic technique. Although, of course, I mean, there was in the back of everybody's minds that Lisa's parents may not be alive, but she may have been killed at the time that Lisa was abducted. We weren't really sure what we were going to find. So there was sort of that looking in the background. Barbara didn't do all of this work alone, though. She had help from volunteers at her local genealogy society. And she also picked up new volunteers along the way from an unexpected source from Lisa's extended family. As Lisa's family trees grew, some of her new found cousins offered to help Barbara with the project. So we probably had over 100 people who were actually helping build trees and do research and brainstorm and so on. It took a little more than a year and what they estimate was about 10,000 hours of work. But in the summer of 2016, Barbara Reventer and her army of volunteers did it. They narrowed down the genealogical possibilities of who Lisa's mother was to just one person. Barbara immediately called and left a message with Detective Headley. And he called me back a couple of hours later and he said, no such person, she doesn't exist. And so we knew that she did exist because we had her grandmother's obituary and we had her brother's obituary. And so of course immediately Pete figures out what it is, is that unfortunately it meant that she was probably deceased. The police databases Detective Headley was looking at are made up of things like DMV and voting records. So if a person hasn't been driving or voting in a long time, they're not likely to show up. Detective Headley contacted the closest living relatives of Lisa's mother that he could find. And for the first time, he spoke with someone who could remember Lisa herself. I was talking to one of her relatives and they remembered her mother and her moving away and they never heard from them again. That's when the pieces fell together and it felt great. What was their reaction with a happy to hear that there was some information about that about that baby in the family that had sort of gone missing. Actually, after I explained the circumstances, she is very shocked and horrified. 30 years after she was abandoned at the Holiday Host RV Park, Detective Peter Headley called Lisa to tell her her real name. Just being able to tell Lisa who she is, that was tremendous, that was tremendous satisfaction. It was very, it made it all worth it. Her name was Don. Don Bowden. She was from New Hampshire. That's the end of part one of this episode of Bearbrook. If you want to keep going, part two is available in your feed right now. Thank you very much.